E64: The Environmental Domain of Stuff

Welcome to the "7 Domains of Women's Health." We're working our way through the topic of stuff, collecting stuff, getting rid of stuff, what stuff means to us, how it elevates us, and how it brings us down.

When we talk about the environmental domain, sometimes, especially when it comes to stuff, we think about how the stuff we have affects our global and our environment right with us, meaning the health of our environment, our natural spaces.

And of course, there's a huge amount to talk about of the stuff we dump in the ocean and the stuff we dump in our waterways. I don't even want to think about what's going to happen when those big lakes are drained, like Lake Powell. I don't even want to think about what's at the bottom of Lake Powell because people have just dumped stuff overboard.

And of course, we have landfills, and landfills themselves are a source of greenhouse gases and an enormous source of junk, but recyclable junk. In many parts of the world, people with very little make their whole living sourcing themselves, wandering themselves through huge, fetid, stinking piles of junk to find something that they can make a living on.

So the concept of stuff in the environment, meaning pollution, pollution of the oceans and of our landfills, is a really big topic.

However, in fact, I can't do that much. As a woman, I can be as responsible as I can about what I buy and what I wear and what I get rid of, but I can't really change the culture of the landfill, and I can't really change the culture, but I'm going to try, of what we dump in the ocean.

So I'm going to talk more about the environment of our home. What stuff do we decide to bring into our home? What do we need to make it a place for a home?

Dr. Jones: We will invite Steven Parker to give us a personal view of stuff at home, or mostly at home. Welcome to the "7 Domains," Mr. Parker. Can I call you Steve?

Steven: Yes, you may.

Dr. Jones: Or can I call you Stevie?

Steven: You can call me Stevie if I can call you Kirtly. So Dr. Jones, Kirtly, my sister, how would you like me to address you? I'm good with whatever you're comfortable with.

Dr. Jones: Okay. We'll be Kirtly and Steve. This is "The Kirtly and Steve Show."

Steven:Great.

Dr. Jones:I won't call you Stevie very often. There you go.

Steven: I won't call you Cupie.

Dr. Jones: Don't say that.

We have moved around a lot in our lives, and you've moved out a lot more in your life. Can you talk about what you've done, how many moves? I think I count about 20 moves. Probably if domicile counts, you may have a bigger number.

Steven: I think that if we included our moves as a family, I think it would be right around 20, which is a lot. I've never really looked up what is kind of considered to be average, but I feel like I've moved a lot. Our father being a geologist, we moved every four years it seemed like. Whether we needed to or not, we were going to move. I mean, that's the way it felt like.

We moved around the western United States. My life started with a move from the East Coast to the west side of the country, and that's where we've remained, but we moved around the western United States quite a bit. California, Nevada, Colorado a couple of times, and I think I got the . . . And overseas.

Dr. Jones: Well, actually I count you moving in utero from Mexico to Boston where you were born, and then to New York City. No, then to Denver. Maybe then to New York City, then to Denver. So I count a lot of places.

Whenever we were moving, we had to move stuff halfway around the world sometimes, and I think our mom would throw away about half the stuff we had, it seemed.

Steven: Well, moving is just one of those things that is kind of something that we do. I don't think anybody really enjoys it. It's just something that we kind of put behind us once we get settled in and hopefully move out of our boxes.

But I think about Mom who bore the brunt of the moves and kind of the logistics of the move. Dad went into the office, started to work. Mom had to unpack and pack kind of at the front end and at the back end of our moves.

And if I'm whinging about moving my truckload or carload of things from one place to another, I try to think about what it must have been like kind of managing that for a family of four overseas. But I'm sure she must have lightened the load when the time to move came from wherever to wherever. I think she lightened the load.

We were schoolkids. We were out in the front yard. We didn't really know a lot of this was going on, but I know she did a wonderful job. It always seemed like wherever we showed up, whatever house we lived in, the furniture was set and we just kind of moved in. And now looking back, I realize somebody must have really paid attention and done a lot of work to get this to be kind of move-in-ready for a family.

Dr. Jones: Right. So the stuff she chose was important stuff.

Steven:It was.

Dr. Jones:And the stuff she left behind or made us . . . She made us leave a lot of our junk behind. Would you call yourself a nomad?

Steven: Well, I was thinking about a nomad and what a nomad is, and a nomad is . . . Yes. Especially in my younger days, I would consider myself a nomad. I think it was our early days of moving I caught the bug, the travel bug, the moving bug. I like to travel and stay. I mean, that's kind of my thing. It's not just travel and come back. I like to travel and stay, and sometimes stay for years, sometimes for decades.

A nomad travels kind of in search of better pasture for herd of animals. I like to think that I traveled for better pastures for the brain or for the soul, new experiences. It took me to South America for three years, it took me to Southeast Asia for 20 years, and even in those different postings or moves, I was able to travel extensively in the region that I was living in overseas at the time. So I definitely consider myself nomadic, especially when I was younger.

I realize I'm gathering a bit of moss in these last 10 years when I moved back to the States, because I missed you. I missed you and I missed the rest of the gang. I missed you, and so kind of gathering some healthy attachments to family, friends, places, especially Colorado where I live.

So not quite as nomadic, but there's a lot of the world I haven't seen and hope to see while I'm here.

Dr. Jones: So those attachments, was there any stuff that you always took with you? Was there any stuff that you considered that you needed or any stuff that made your place a home?

Steven: Well, when I think about the things I would've taken or continue to take with me when I moved that small percentage of my total overall possessions that I do take with me from place to place, it's probably not very practical.

I think about small pieces of framed artwork that are . . . The quickest way for me to feel at home is to put those up on the wall. I bring jackets to places that don't really require jackets because I have a jacket . . . not a fetish but a collection, that I'm very fond of. I have my totes, my canvas totes, one from Maine that has puffins on it.

And so they're kind of odd, less-than-practical possessions, but they do allow me to feel at home quickly in a new place. A few tools, a few books. Now I have added my laptop, my tablet, my thumb drive, and my phone to that, which I take with me because it seems to contain a lot of memories that are easy to transport.

Dr. Jones: Well, when I think about stuff and what might be the only good reason to have stuff . . . I mean, there might be stuff because you want to show other people that you can have this item or this car or whatever. But the only stuff that's valuable, at least to me, is the stuff that's attached to a memory that's important to me.

So if I have a pair of earrings . . . I have way too many earrings, but the ones I have, they all have an attachment of a meaning. So stuff that isn't necessary for life, like food and warmth, usually has to have a meaning associated with it.

So how much stuff do you have now in the place where you live?

Steven: Well, not a lot of stuff. I mean, you can kind of see . . . Your listeners can't see this. I don't think they see this, or won't be able to see this, but you can see that this is . . . You're pretty much looking at it. What you see on the screen is my stuff. There are a couple of small closets. We'll get to the storage unit here shortly, but right now I don't have a lot of stuff. There's really nothing in the garage that I share.

I was very efficient the last time I downsized to move into this smaller apartment. It's a studio. It's one room. I love the fact that it came beautifully furnished, so I didn't really need to worry about furnishing.

So right now, I am right-sized. I love that fact. The possessions of mine that are here that belong to me would fit into the back of my car, which is kind of a goal of mine. I was watching a show that said everything you need should fit on the back of your horse. Well, this is now what will fit into my car.

And so that's kind of where I am now, but to be completely transparent and honest, I do have a storage unit. I'm not proud of that fact. So I can't pass myself off as the complete minimalist when I know that out there is a storage unit that's full of stuff.

Dr. Jones: Okay. Well, let's go there, Steve. Let's go there.

Steven: All right.

Dr. Jones: You have stuff in another place, like a storage facility?

Steven: I do. I'm embarrassed.

Dr. Jones: If you can share, what's in there? Come on. What's in there?

Steven: Stuff. I wanted to see how many times we mentioned the word stuff on this program, on the podcast, but I think it's going to be a couple hundred times. Stuff, stuff, stuff, and more stuff.

So what's in there? It's all the stuff that I don't need and just haven't gotten around to disposing of it.

When I downsized, when I moved out of the last place before here, it was just the decision-making process, the going through all this stuff. I just didn't want to do it at the time. I kicked that can down the road. I found a nice storage unit and a facility part of a national chain of self-storage, and I put everything in there.

Now, it's beautifully organized. It's stacking tubs. I'm so proud of my storage unit, but there's nothing in there that I need. It's mostly clothes, which obviously if I haven't worn them in a year, which the last time I was in my storage unit was about a year ago, I don't need them.

So my storage unit is full of stuff that can be disposed of, but it's just kind of out of sight, out of mind until I look at my bank statement.

Dr. Jones: How much does it cost?

Steven: Well, the size that I got . . . I didn't want to be in that situation where you go to your storage unit and you have to take everything out to get that thing that you're looking for, so I wanted slightly bigger. Eight-by-10-by-whatever-height. And that allows me to have everything in there and get stuff without having to completely pull everything out into the hallway. It's $165 a month, so it's one of my largest monthly expenses.

Dr. Jones: Oh. Well, okay.

Steven: But it's money going down the drain. It's money wasted as far as I'm concerned.

Dr. Jones: Well, especially because you haven't really taken anything out of it in almost a year.

Steven: I know.

Dr. Jones: If you chose to get rid of stuff, how do you get rid of stuff? I mean, I've lived in the same house for 40 years and I have some stuff. I can't say that I'm a hoarder, but I haven't gotten rid of a whole lot of stuff. But if you're going to get rid of this stuff, how do you get rid of it?

Steven: I mean, for when I'm moving or ultimately when I go down to the storage unit to clear it out, which will happen soon, I'm kind of a Marie Kondo fan where if it's clothing, it still has to fit.

Dr. Jones: Marie Kondo is kind of an uber guru about stuff, and mostly in getting rid of your stuff and how to organize and get rid of stuff and clear your mind, right? It's to clear your mind?

Steven: Yes, and only to be surrounded by those things that, as she says, spark joy. So I'm always looking for the spark of joy when I'm deciding about whether to keep or to dispose of. I'm always kind of going, "Well, I haven't touched this for a year. Somebody could be making better use of this than me." That's always in the back of my mind.

And just not wanting to be associated with hoarderism. I'm not even sure that's a word, but that idea that I'm sitting on a pile of things that other people could use.

Dr. Jones: So would you have a garage sale? Would you give it away? Do you take it to the dump?

Steven: I've had enough garage sales in my day, and it's just not worth the time and the bartering and the bickering and the haggling. It's kind of fun up to a point, but what you actually take away is hardly worth the time invested.

So donating to a charitable organization is always my first choice. Recycling is . . . whenever possible, recycle things that kind of go into a stream that could be recycled as opposed to landfill. Landfills, I used to love them. You and I used to go to the dump with our dad.

Dr. Jones: Oh, yeah. The dump runs.

Steven: Used to love the dump runs, but when I see what ends up in landfills these days, it's off-putting, so I try to avoid the dump as much as possible.

Dr. Jones: There's fiber recycling and I think probably there are various places where . . . Maybe you have old sheets or something, or there's something with a tear in it you don't think anybody wants, but they actually recycle the fiber, and then some clothing is actually made of recycled fiber.

Steven: Well, that would be great because when I think about my storage unit, I'd say probably 30% of what's in there is clothing that I'm not going to wear. Again, it seems wasteful, so if I could find . . . I mean, there's always Arc and Goodwill, those charitable organizations. But if I knew about fiber recycling, I need to look into that, Kirtly, because that would be a great . . . Not right now.

Dr. Jones: Well, dump runs I remember. Have you done any dump runs recently?

Steven: No, I have not. Now, they've taken kind of the fun out of the dump run. I don't do them. I don't make them like I used to because they're now . . . Remember we were growing up, you were allowed a couple of galvanized steel trash cans, maybe one, and now they're allowing us to put these huge little mini dumpsters in front of the house for our weekly garbage, our weekly collection. So I don't really get to go to the dump.

In my previous jobs as a builder, I went to the dump fairly often. I mean, we would put stuff in dumpsters which would be hauled away to the dump, and sometimes we would actually take a truckload to the dump when we didn't have a dumpster's worth.

But it still is just amazing and heartbreaking to see what is thrown away. I'll be honest that we threw away things that should not have been thrown away. Kitchens. Entire kitchens were broken down and disposed of in landfills that could have been recycled. It's just that the time and cost . . .

Dr. Jones: Metal recycling.

Steven: Yeah, metal recycling.

Dr. Jones: I'm attached by a wedding ring to the uber recycler, and we have to go to the electronics recycling and we have to go to the metal recycling, and then we have to go to the . . . We can't even put this in the dump because it's got something that's flammable. So we have to do all these important dump runs.

Well, let's go back. Is there any stuff that you gave away or threw away that you wish you still had?

Steven: I've thought about that, and I really honestly can't think of anything. I tend to make these decisions, and they're final. I've said goodbye. I've gone through the stages of grief about it, and "so long" without looking back, without regrets. I kind of deal with it at that moment of disposal.

There are some things I've sold. I know it's a little different. There are some things I've sold that I wished I hadn't, like some jewelry and some firearms that I wished I had not. So some regrets there, but most of the stuff I've given away or disposed of, I'm pretty happy with my decisions and I'm glad it's not in my possession any longer.

Dr. Jones: Were the firearms our dad's?

Steven: Yes, they were. And they were given to me. I wished I had them back. I wish I could buy them back.

Dr. Jones: Yeah. Well, getting to what makes an environment feel like home, I want to get back to that, because when I've been thinking about what kind of stuff I want to have around me . . . I've given this some thought and you can help me with it. But for me, as I've been thinking about it, it's not the stuff. It's the people that makes a place feel like home.

I mean, I have stuff in my house, but feeling like I'm at home is with my . . . I feel at home in my sister's house. So it doesn't have to be my house. And I feel like my home is my home when my brothers and sisters are there, or when our best friends forever are there or I'm in their home, wherever they are.

Home is where there's a special homey person reading in a chair that I can make coffee for, or who maybe would make coffee for me. See our "7 Domains of Caffeine" if you guys haven't listened to that already, our listeners.

So home is a table around which people I love are having dinner that we made together, and the more I think about it as I look at my stuff, home is about the people for me. It's all about the people, not the stuff.

Steven: I hear you. I feel you, because I feel the same way. I sometimes look around at my kind of somewhat sparse surroundings where I live, which is intentional and which I prefer and create. What allows me to do that is because I have you and your home, which I love to visit and stay at, and our other sister's home. I'm welcome in so many beautiful homes with deep roots that I'm kind of going, "While I may not have that picture-perfect home," although it works for me, "I do have these three other wonderful homes that I can go and visit any time I want," to give me that feeling of home and place.

So I totally relate to what you're saying, Kirtly. I feel the same way. It's about the people.

One thing I wanted to add, I'm thinking about my possessions, what I have taken with me from place to place that manages to make the cut. And some of it is my son's possessions, things that I am more attached to than he is. Maybe it's because by having a possession of his, whether he wants it or not, it kind of keeps him close.

This is related to kind of the possessions of people as meaningful items or memories of them as meaningful items. But his cap and gown from university graduation, or rugby plaques and trophies, and stuff like that, they're more meaningful to me than I think they are to him, so I keep that stuff and take it with me from place to place, which is kind of funny. Other people's stuff.

Dr. Jones: Yeah, I don't think I have that much, and maybe because my son is nearby, so I don't need his stuff. In fact, I made him come and get all of his stuff out of our house. It's like, "Enough is enough. You come get your stuff or throw it away because it's just collecting dust."

But that concept of stuff as attachment to meaning, attachment to memory, and people making the home, not the stuff. Although I sure do like nice sheets and I think I have accumulated some nice soft sheets, but that's mostly because I want people to come visit me. The people that I make coffee for, I want them to come visit me and be in a bed with nice soft sheets.

Steven: And I know them well, the nice soft sheets. Which reminds me, Kirtly, that one of the other things that I have . . . It's kind of a response to a number of questions that you've raised. What I take with me and what is currently in my place are things that have been made for me, given to me by the creator.

There's a crochet . . . What do you call that? Knitting or crocheting? A throw that you just drape over yourself. Is that crocheting or is that knitting?

Dr. Jones: Well, sometimes it's knit and sometimes it's crochet. Are there big holes in it?

Steven: Yes.

Dr. Jones: Are there holes in it? Then it's probably crocheted.

Steven: Okay. So this is crocheted by a friend's mom. It was just a completely out-of-the-blue gift and it is so beautiful and it's so surprisingly warm. Even though it has a lot of holes in it, it's surprisingly warm and colorful. It just brightens up my day. That will go with me wherever I go forever and ever.

And a couple of other throws like a small quilt or this crocheted throw are things that really make this place warm in the winter and cozy and inviting for me or for anybody who comes to visit. So those are a couple of possessions that will always follow me wherever I go.

Dr. Jones: I think in a home, what I need is a place to make something hot. I think, "Well, what do I really need in my home aside from . . ." I need to have a comfortable bed with cozy . . . I need to have cozy quilts and I need to have nice sheets. Well, that's for sleep. But for daytime, I need something I can cook on. I need something to make hot water or heat up something, because that's part of what I need for a home.

I don't have a big kitchen and I don't have anything fancy, but something about the stuff that you can make on a stove or in a microwave or in a kettle makes me feel at home. It's got to be warm. Maybe because it's cold here right now.

Well, this has been a very personal view of what stuff makes a home. Thanks for joining us, Stevie.

Steven: You're welcome.

And thank you all for listening. We will cover all the domains in our journey of stuff, the physical, the emotional, the social, intellectual, financial, and spiritual. If you want a deep dive into stuff, check out all of them, or check out the domains that interest you. Thanks for joining us on the "7 Domains of Women's Health."