S7E26: Still Figuring It Out

Alizah: Well, welcome back, everyone. This is the season finale of "Bundle of Hers." My name is Alizah, and we have two other amazing hosts with us today. I will offer them the pleasure of introducing themselves.

Laurel: Hi, I'm Laurel.

Hạ: Hi, everyone. I'm Hạ.

Alizah: All right. Well, I want to welcome our listeners back, and I want to kind of introduce the theme of this episode as it is our finale. We started the season asking about what it means to explore who we are, and today we're looking back at where that journey took us and how it shaped the way we see ourselves now.

And as a disclaimer, all of the views and opinions and thoughts we share are totally our own and are not reflective of our universities or institutions that we work at or study at.

I'm interested to know what this theme has meant to you guys, personally, throughout the show and throughout the season.

Hạ: I like the parallel of exploration and discovery because I think that both of them are . . . I guess you can say they're opposite side . . .

Laurel: Two sides of the same coin.

Hạ: Two sides of the same coin. Thank you, Laurel. They're two sides of the same coin, and I find that even as I'm exploring and discovering, I'm still actually building and creating new questions to discover and new things to explore.

And it's also something that I resonate quite a lot with now and feel really deeply because when you get into more and more of the thick of residency, it's really hard to have that moment of reflection to be able to consider and think about, "How am I exploring? How am I discovering? How am I continuing to grow?"

And so this theme has been very helpful of giving me that reflection point and that point of reframing and thinking about.

How have you thought about the theme, Laurel?

Laurel: I think that I similarly have thought about it in a kind of mirrored approach, two sides of the coin. But for me, it's been a reflection of both the internal and external exploration and discovery, which is something maybe that I didn't anticipate.

When we started this season, I was thinking about exploration and discovery in the context of, "Oh, I'm trying new hobbies. I am exploring new aspects of my research. I'm becoming a senior grad student, and what does that look like?"

And while I have done those things and it's been really rewarding and fulfilling, something that has been really special, I think, has been I've also been doing a lot of internal discovery and exploration. Not just "What am I doing?" but "Who am I and what am I trying to be and become?" That's been something that I've realized isn't an either/or but kind of both necessarily happened in the same moment, in the same effort.

And so it's been really neat to kind of . . . as I'm figuring out the world around me necessarily, the world is pushing back on me and I'm figuring out myself as well. And so that's been, I think, a sort of unexpected but really lovely journey to have gone on, or to still be on, really.

Hạ: I really love that. That's so beautifully stated, Laurel. I just have to say that. So wise.

Laurel: Alizah, what about you?

Alizah: Yeah, I originally started this season with this really . . . I don't know how to put it, but very ambitious, I will say. I'm like, "Yeah, we're going to discover and we're going to discover everything, and I'm going to lead the charge."

And in a very rhetorical device kind of way, if this past year was a book, it definitely took an ironic take in the sense of "talk is cheap." And I won't say unwillingly, but I had to do an immense amount of self-discovery and self-work. And so really, that threw me away from school, threw me away from any extracurriculars, and I really took this head-on but in a totally different direction.

It's interesting to see the way that things have played out and how things have gone, for sure.

I'm interested to know what parts of the season have kind of stood out to you.

Laurel: I think that, for me, I feel like I'm probably not going to be the only person with this takeaway. I mean, there are tons of takeaways from the season, right? You have people talking about all manner of things with tons of experience. You could do a podcast episode on each podcast episode.

But what really resonated with me and probably I would guess with others as well was Lilly's episode with Kate Tyler, "The Grief: Life on Both Sides of the Stethoscope," which is also, I think, just a beautiful and even succinct title.

I entered into sort of the discovery and exploration with this idea that, "There is a professional me that has been in grad school for a million years and now I'm in this pocket of where I'm a senior grad student and my project is evolving where I can sort of figure myself out and do the personal side of things."

And I think that was a really beautiful episode as a reminder that we're never going to only exist in one side of our profession or our experience. You're never going to be just a physician who sees patients. You are also going to be a person who, at some point, is a patient who sees physicians.

Similarly, I have viewed myself as a researcher a lot, a grad student, a scientist, etc. And the past few months especially have had to very acutely think about myself as a trans person who is researched and who benefits from certain avenues of research.

And so I think the reminder that you are never only on one side of the interaction. I think that in some ways, that's an important and maybe the most important thing as we connect in this sort of career of healers, to remember that it's not a me to you. It's an us, I guess. And I feel like that episode was a really striking conversation and also a reminder, if that makes any sense.

Hạ: I feel like what you just described really resonates with me, particularly thinking about the we and the us and not really having delineated clear lines between what we are and understanding our identity.

I really think the vibes of listening to the season is just feeling like it's not just me. I'm really within an us and I'm listening to people be on me and be on what's in my headspace.

The problem, for me, is my experience with residency is as we're exploring and as we're discovering, we often also lose a lot of ourselves. And I'm still in a process of trying to refine myself right now after surprising things that I didn't anticipate happened over the last few months that have forced me to really rethink about, "What are my priorities in life? What am I doing? Why am I engaging in an institution or a system that causes so much harm? And why am I devoting all of my time to A when there's all of this stuff happening outside of the world and I should be devoting my time to X, Y, and Z?"

And as I've been essentially rethinking and everything, what I really appreciate is just listening to other voices and other perspectives, especially because you all have been within this very traumatic, hurtful system. So it sometimes brings me a little bit of joy to see the fire and the thought that still exists out there.

I sometimes rethink about old episodes I used to do in "Bundles," because I've been here since the start of third year of med school to now almost hitting the third year of residency. And I sometimes go, "I lost so much of my fire because I've just been kind of 80-hours-a-week-worked out of having fire."

And so what I really appreciate is when I listen to the episodes again, I learn new things, I see new perspectives, and I see there is a community and there is more out there than what the system is feeding to tell me that I need to be or that I need to become.

Alizah: I don't want to speak for you, but it sounds like there's a lot of mistrust and a stark change maybe, I'm not sure, about these recent years or months. What have you discovered about the system throughout the season?

Hạ: I think that I've always had a level of uncertainty about a system. I have always had a little bit of hesitation about these systems and about what we're getting to. And I think you can have that innate awareness of it, but you don't really feel it until you're in it.

You also have to sometimes sit and weigh, "Do I choose to do this activist work or do I choose to just rot?" As Lilly likes to say, "Rot in my couch and not do anything."

And I feel like as a chronic person with issues with saying no and boundaries, I've still been able, throughout my life, to make it work and still feel like I have a touch-in point with myself, but now it's really starting to go, "You have to weigh risks and benefits."

I think the system really is built because it works you so hard. It's hard for you to organize, it's hard for you to really think about things, and sometimes you're just in survival mode.

And it's all stuff that I was very innately aware of before residency, but I think that now that you've gone through it, you start feeling it.

I think my residency is not the worst out there and I think that my residency has really good points that they try to do to support their residents. But when you start looking at your schedule and you start realizing that even if there are people of good intent, the whole goal of a lot of these systems is to just make money and you are the hospital staff.

A lot of times, decisions that are made about what scheduling looks like is just "Who's going to cover the hospital?" And residents are some of the cheapest labor that you can get to cover the hospital staff.

Also, in this greater age with all of the things happening in the world, there's also been a lot more institutional not allowing people to speak up in the ways that they want to speak up anymore and always also having to navigate that.

And also when you're working 80 hours a week quite consistently, your body starts also not doing so well. And it's really hard to have that balance to be able to do the things that recharge you. In a way, you kind of have to schedule in your ability to be a human.

So, all to say, I think this is the burnout phase that we're reaching, but it's forced me to reflect a lot on how I want to build myself up again and the new boundaries that I need to create for myself.

Laurel: Good news. I'm actually an expert on boundaries now because I read the book "Set Boundaries, Find Peace." Well, I'm not an expert yet because I'm only 57% of the way through the audiobook of "Set Boundaries, Find Peace."

Alizah: I'm half of an expert right now.

Laurel: I'm half of an expert. I'm approximately 57% of an expert. But it's something that I've been thinking a lot about. And actually, the second part of the book has been really valuable for me, which is written by Nedra Glover Tawwab. It's "A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself." And I think that that's something that was really . . .

I haven't done a residency and I know that I will experience the things, or at least comparable things, to what you're experiencing, Hạ. I think that everyone on this podcast is a person who is on this podcast because they care a lot and because they like to give parts of themselves.

And it's just been a really interesting exercise to kind of figure out if you . . . I like the phrase "you can't pour from an empty cup." But I think that it's hard because residency is long and designed to really, really, really empty your cup.

And so I'm just sort of interjecting to say that it is important, I think, probably for you to take care of yourself.

I had a conversation with someone a few years back about the feeling of "I want to do more, but I can't really do more." And we kind of settled on this metaphor of sometimes you're growing the roots and sometimes you're blossoming the flowers. I think that it's okay if right now isn't a season where you can maybe do as much as you want.

It's tricky because medicine, especially, is something that encourages you . . . I think, generally speaking, you go into medicine because you're like, "I want to help people." And then that impulse is really tricky in a system that will make you work yourself into the dirt if you don't actively decide not to do that. But again, you can't take care of others unless you yourself remain a person.

Alizah: I think a theme that I've picked up between the three of us here is we're still figuring it out. There's a big question mark in a lot of areas that we're exploring, whether that be medicine or personal, which often overlap, or other areas. These things are still stuff that we don't know and things that we're learning to kind of figure out.

I guess I just want to add that that's been a challenge for me personally. I've learned recently that I have a very dichotomous brain in terms of like, "Well, if I fail this, then that means I suck at all of medical school." That's totally unfair and not reasonable or logical when it's said back to me, but if it's in my brain, that totally gets by, if that makes sense.

And I have really grappled with trying to figure out my identity in terms of, "Well, if I'm not good at everything, then that must mean I'm bad at everything." I'm trying to find that nuance.

I guess I just want to say I'm really leaning into not having life figured out at the moment.

And I'm curious, what does that look like for you guys today? For me, it's trying to find a schedule, trying to stick to it, trying to remember to eat. What does not having it figured out look like for you guys?

Laurel: I told my PI, the head of my research lab that I'm doing my PhD in, after my abstract meeting that I felt kind of disappointed at some of the feedback I got. And he asked me, "Well, what feedback did you want?" And I had to be like, "I didn't want any feedback. I wanted them to tell me it was perfect."

I think I'm a person where I'm like, "I'm going to do this 100% right the very first time and no one is ever going to question that I care or that I am trying," or things of that nature. And it turns out that doesn't happen and it's literally impossible.

I have to just be aware, I guess, of what is important to me. And by this, I'll give a very silly example, which is my research right now is going really, really well and I am also, I think, doing a reasonable job spending time with my loved ones, which is really important to me.

Also, this week, it took me three days to put my clothes away in the laundry bin after I put the clean laundry in my dirty laundry bin and was like, "All right. That's going to be the next thing I do." And then it definitely wasn't. That's a very, I think, silly, benign example, but that kind of thing happens all the time.

I think one of the most important lessons that I've made progress on, but I'm still trying to learn, is you don't have to juggle all of the balls at the same time. You're allowed to put things down and pick them up. And I think that that's something where I am coming to terms with.

I gave a small group project update a couple weeks ago and I was like, "This slide deck is bare bones, but it has the information that y'all need." I didn't spend time putting in animations or transitions. I am trying to be more mindful of myself and my energy and my capacity, and the fact that joy and happiness and unproductive things are allowed to be my priority over, "This is going to be the best slide deck that anyone has ever seen." But it's something where I feel like I am learning to be okay with an okay job.

Hạ: That was very beautifully and wonderfully stated, Laurel.

Laurel: Thanks. Stop.

Hạ: Actually, it's kind of in the same vein in trying to just figure life out for me. I feel like residency has been a stage of figuring different aspects of my life out at different times, depending on what gets triggered. And there was a stage when my figuring my life out was going like, "Hạ, you've got to lower your expectations. You have to be okay with being okay."

When I would just go in at work, when I'm walking into work, I'd be like, "Your goal today is to answer all the parent's questions. That's all you need to do. Answer the parent's questions." And I kept it such a low goal.

I found that, actually, when I did that, it meant I went through the day without not feeling like, "Oh, God, I am the most terrible physician in the entire world. All of my patients hate me," and going into that spiral that I could do.

Then similarly, a lot of times figuring out my life is I'm now choosing a lot more time for me to sometimes just read a book and not care about that email that I need to send, because that email will eventually get sent. Maybe it's not at the timeline that I want it to be, but it's okay to wait a little bit.

It's all to say that I have been learning a lot more about trying to just set more reasonable expectations for myself to allow for growth and to allow for a wiggle room.

And it has been very . . . Well, it's still a work-in-progress. I think I did say this some time ago, but I do fully believe that we're all works in progress and we are always building and growing.

Alizah: I love that. And I think just being okay with being okay. I think that the demographic of people who kind of end up in medicine or work incredibly hard and struggle to stay in medicine maybe lean towards perfectionistic tendencies. And I just don't want to understate the difficulty or the struggle it takes to kind of just breathe out and lessen those expectations for one's self.

One of my dear friends that I had the opportunity of meeting up with this past week, we were talking about how we feel like we're failing at everything. I told her, "I don't feel like I'm a good student. I don't feel like I'm a good daughter. I don't feel like I'm a good sister. I don't feel like I'm a good friend." And I was like, "But there's one thing I can do, and that's clean baseboards." I just told her, "I can clean."

And so even just taking a step back to be like, "I'm competent at this, which is totally unrelated and totally maybe not productive, but I can do that."

And she shared that she is now this expert baker of bread, which I was like, "That's totally more useful considering the future we're looking at." I'm a professional baseboard cleaner. But anyway, I really, really liked what you said.

Laurel: First of all, I don't know if I can clean baseboards. So to me, that is a very significant skill because it's a skill I don't have.

I want to give one quote and then one sort of response to something you said. I love this quote, which is John Steinbeck, "And now that you don't have to be perfect, you can be good."

I want to also add that I've been reading a lot about child development, partially in relationship to me therapizing my own childhood and partially in relationship to my intention to kind of work in pediatric rare disease.

And one of the things that I've actually found comforting as a person despite not being a parent is that a lot of the conversations about early childhood development and how sort of spongy kids can be is this concern that people are going to be bad parents. And the research shows that you really don't need to be a perfect parent. You just have to be "good enough."

I love that where it's not that you have to be perfect, you don't have to be great . . . And even words like good. Alizah, like you said, "Am I a good student?" can become really, really laden with a lot of pressure and expectations.

And so I've been really leaning into this sort of "good enough." The perfectionist version of me probably even a year ago, to be honest, but especially the version of me going into grad school, would have really balked at this idea that I was into the whole "good enough," like, "No. What is 'good enough'? Perfection."

But it's something where you can't be perfect at everything. Am I a perfect student? No, but I was a good enough student and I learned the things that I needed to learn.

I don't know. I think there's some amount of serenity in me trying to be, for the first time in my life, not a complete control freak. And it's been a nice time.

I'm talking about it as if this is a switch that I flipped, and it's not at all. It's ongoing and hard. I had therapy this morning and I told my therapist the thing that has been true, which is I've cried more probably in the last couple months than I had in my entire life before that. There's a lot going on, but it's worthwhile, even if it's hard. And like I said, practicing vulnerability.

And so I just kind of wanted to ask you all . . . Exploration is hard. Discovery can be hard. Not everything you find is peaches and rainbows. And so was there a time that y'all felt lost or uncertain or even resistant to kind of the process of discovery and exploration this past season?

Alizah: I actually kind of lost a lot of sense of structure, I think, in my personal life. And there were a lot of pieces of my life that were just kind of I think . . . I don't want to say usurped because that's maybe not fair. But time goes on and people, for me, in my case, passed away, and I found it very hard to even engage in an interest, to even say, "Oh, yeah. I want to learn more. I want to discover this."

There were times where I was like, "I'm okay with being numb right now. I actually don't want to experience emotions outside of this."

I'll share I also go to therapy, and during that time . . . And it's still a work-in-progress, right? I say "during that time." I'm still going through that time. I was encouraged to kind of lean into my being numb, my resistance to learn more, my resistance to not want to discover, and, as we said earlier, being okay with that.

I don't know if I'm neurotic, but I know I definitely am very black-or-white thinking. I was like, "Well, if I'm not discovering perfectly, then I'm not discovering at all."

And so I was just encouraged to be like, "Why don't you sit and see what comes by in this period of not learning about yourself and not discovering or not leaning into why you have these attachments? Just sit here and be okay with that."

That was definitely challenging because I felt like I wasn't pursuing anything and I wasn't being efficacious with my time and I wasn't healing correctly, and it really was a lot of mental gymnastics.

But I think sitting in the space that you occupy is fundamental to me and really taking in the scenery of whatever desolate landscape you might find yourself in.

And I don't know if that makes it easier or if it makes time pass faster, but I do know that it dampened the voices of, "We need to exit here immediately. We are not doing well here." I don't want to say capitalistic, but I'm going to. This capitalistic force of, "Be your best self. Always be in bloom." I don't know. It was nice to have that voice quieted at least for a moment.

Hạ: I'm really sorry that all of that happened. I just want to put that out there first.

Alizah: Thank you, Hạ.

Hạ: I kind of alluded to it when I did my rant spill of it earlier. I was in my angry phase and now you've seen me go through the five stages of grief. But during the season, earlier this year, I actually had health stuff that occurred and it basically left me unable to do anything.

I am a person who, even when I'm on vacation, I'm running. I'm packing my schedule seeing people. I'm doing all of these things, even doing residency or all of the million tasks, because no boundaries as we've established, and agreement to a lot of different things.

And there was a time period where I was just stuck sitting in what I called my dark bat cave, being unable to do anything except listen to audiobooks. That was the only thing that I could do that didn't make me feel worse.

And it was really, really hard, because as a person who's really active and who puts a lot of my health state . . . Over the years, I've put a lot of my personality and my identity into doing things like running, being really physically active, doing stuff, and going out, and eating food, and all of this. And suddenly, everything that I was building . . . I was going, "I'm discovering. I'm building this identity," all of that just got taken away from me for a brief period of time.

It was really, really hard and I wasn't happy about it, and I was forced to just sit there and think and kind of basically reclaim myself.

And I think part of the reason why I'm now so bitter going into residency is that then I had this whole time where I could just sit and realize, "Oh my gosh, there are all these things about me that I used to have that I completely forgot."

One of my things that I remembered . . . I was talking with someone I met after I started residency. I was talking about how I love having plot bunnies and I love dreaming up plots. I love to write. And they're like, "I didn't know you were a writer. I didn't know you really loved art and all of these things." And I was like, "Oh, shoot, I lost this big part of my identity that people pre-residency would have known about me." Pre-med school even.

Something that I've realized is I think there's a point where you work so hard that your body screams and says, "You have to calm down. I have to hold you accountable to your actions. Please, sit." And so my body did that, and it was not fun for me as someone who's always moving. But I'm really glad I did it.

It does make me now a bit more spicy with my work and with what these systems and institutions expect of me, but it also means that I've been doing a lot better with grappling and dreaming of how to build an environment for me that allows me to stay true to me.

Laurel: That's really lovely, Hạ. And I'm sorry that you had to experience some really destabilizing things, but I'm proud of you and I'm always amazed by you.

I've been listening to a lot of Rebecca Sugar songs. There's "Adventure Time" and "Steven Universe," and there's the song "Everything Stays" that you made me think of where the chorus goes, "Everything stays right where you left it, everything stays but it still changes ever so slightly, daily and nightly, in little ways when everything stays."

This idea that you maybe lose things, including things that you love. You can pick those things up again and they'll be changed, but you'll be changed too.

An exercise that we had after my first year of med school that I really liked was actually our Layers, which is our medical humanities class. Our Layers instructor asked us to name one thing about us that changed in the past year that we liked and one thing that changed that we didn't like.

And it's something that I super appreciated because everyone, I think, always views the progression of time as a linear thing, and it's like, "Oh, better and better." Instead, I think we got to reflect that after a year of med school, in some ways I have grown, and in other ways I have shrunk. And I think that's something that if you don't realize, then you never get to pick those things up again.

So there's this video game that's my best friend's favorite video game. I finally played it after years of them talking about it, and I'm like, "Dang it, why did I take so long to play it?" It's called Alan Wake 2 and it has all this stuff with time loops, but you realize it's not a loop, it's a spiral.

The whole idea is even if you go through the same things, each time you're learning and you're growing and you are . . . I don't want to say better, but even if you're doing the same things, you're not necessarily in the same place. That's something where even if you encounter the same things and you find yourself falling into the same patterns, you can still take what you've learned.

And I think that's something for me that . . . Right now, I'm in a very different stage of the grad school versus med school. I think about going back to med school and my very, very chill vibes would probably not be so chill. I was not chill the last time I was in med school and I don't think med school is going to let me stay chill probably when I return. But at least the things that you love will wait for you, I think.

Alizah: I think all things will be for our benefit, right? Whether they're great or bad, I think it ultimately comes out in the wash where we grow from it, like Hạ was saying. And so that's something I want to maybe encourage our listeners to take away, but also something that I practically need to get stapled to my forehead.

Laurel: I love that. The attitude I have to a lot of things, that's actually, I think, something that I've evolved but kept, is it'll either work out or it'll be a really funny story. And that has generally been true where the worse something is, the more I get to get excited because I'm like, "I'm going to tell this to the most engaged audience about how horrifying this is."

And I think while we're finishing the finale, gently closing this book chapter of this season of "Bundle of Hers," maybe we can think about a lesson or a feeling for folks to carry forward from this season.

But also, I got a tarot reading from my sister's girlfriend this past weekend. I got the Four of Wands, which means it's a card of celebration and teamwork and whatnot. And so I think also maybe we can leave with what's something you're proud of from this season, this experience, something that we can celebrate together?

I'll say for a lesson or a feeling, I think listeners should be silly. I stand by the silliness. I feel like I've learned more and become more passionate about adults are meant to play also. And what's good for children is probably also good for adults and humans.

I think play and creativity and fun are something that we don't always necessarily prioritize, and I think it's super important. And I think the more I've leaned into that as a person, I feel like honestly the better my work has become because I'm both rested, but also when I am approaching professional stuff, I'm also like, "Oh, I still feel creative," instead of, "I'm dead." And that's been nice.

Hạ: I love that. I actually have started talking about playing, Laurel. I actually have started texting friends and going, "Do you all want to parallel play?" So we parallel play like children. So fun.

But the lesson that I want to also give to our dear listeners is to keep yapping with each other and to yap with your community. I honestly will admit, as you might have felt from the tone of my voice, that I started this episode really tired, but now I've ended this episode feeling like my heart has grown two sizes bigger, like the Grinch.

And so all to say, I think a lot of times systems and things make it so you can feel so alone, but please yap on and yap with the people that you love so that you can continue to build community and continue to find peace in yourself. And sometimes yapping can also be yapping to a journal, but just yap, yap, yap.

Alizah: In addition to, I think, the yap and the silly and the play that you guys brought up, one lesson I want to offer to our listeners is integration. I think in the spaces that you show up, that you yap with your friends or you parallel play or you have a fun silly good time, I want people to bring all parts of them.

Bring your joy, bring your fear, bring your grief, and bring your wonder. Bring it here. I want it all. I want you entirely. I want you comprehensively.

Don't be afraid to show up as you are. You don't need to have it all together. I want the messy along with the clean. And I want the Bradford pear trees along with the roses. I just think that's so valuable in those interactions where we yap and play with each other.

Laurel: I really, really resonate with that. And to be honest, I think probably that's something that I am really . . . If we're talking about little things to celebrate, I feel like one of my celebrations is I've been literally more myself instead of being only convenient or accommodating or pleasant.

I have leaned on the people around me more, and both shared on "Bundle of Hers," but also let my friends see the parts of me that are, again, scared or neurotic.

And I think that I'm proud of myself for letting people love me as their friend, as their intimate, and all the weirdness that that brings instead of having people only see the sort of me at my best or me at my most articulated.

I feel like I have gotten more intimacy even in a few months of really sharing deeply than I think that you get from almost years of only letting people see your highlight reel.

That's something where I don't think I realized, like how you said at the beginning, how often we exist within an "us" or a "we" maybe without even realizing it. And I'm really grateful for that experience and excited to continue it.

Hạ: Something that I'm happy about this year is it's been my year of going to concerts and checking out a lot of [inaudible 00:36:50].

Laurel: Aw, yeah.

Hạ: I got to see j-hope recently in Oakland, which is one-seventh of BTS, which is big because I don't think I'm ever going to be able to secure a BTS tickets. At least I got to see one-seventh of them, so I'm stoked.

I like that I'm still living my best life, not letting becoming an outer and entering my 30s stop me from having a good time. So that's what I'm proud about myself.

What about you, Alizah?

Alizah: Something that I guess I want to celebrate is tackling things that I kind of have put off in the sense of I needed this disruption in my timeline of my linear growth that I had planned for me perfectly to tackle things that I didn't want to bring to the surface because it wasn't part of my highlight reel.

But now that I've had the space and have had the time to really delve into those things, I'm proud of myself for looking at them critically and analyzing it and seeing where I fall short or where I've succeeded.

And I'm grateful for the growth that I've done. Even though it may not show up on a CV or a resume, I just know that I'm a better person now than I was, or I guess more of myself than I was a year ago.

Laurel: Hooray.

Hạ: Yay.

Laurel: And ultimately, you're a person and not a CV. So I think that it's a beautiful thing even if you can't make it into a bullet point.

Alizah: Yeah. I just want to let you know this isn't typically on a CV, but I am the most whole person. I'm the best version of myself right now, so lucky you.

Laurel: Hell yeah. What a special thing. There's only one you, and then you are being the most yourself. No one else can be you, and you get to be the most you. It's awesome.

I think with that, perhaps we conclude this season of "Bundle of Hers." Farewell to Season 7. You can listen to this and other episodes anywhere you listen to podcasts. Farewell.

Hạ: Bye, everyone.

Alizah: See y'all.

Laurel: Fade out. Fade out. Fade out.