E30: 7 Domains of Turning 30

Well, what's in a number? Why is turning 30 such a cultural phenomenon, and not in a happy way? Is there any biological significance for women who are turning 30? We're going to turn the "7 Domains" lights on this issue, the good, and the bad, and the ugly. Well, there is no ugly, really, and there's not much bad, but, of course, this is through the lens of someone who sees 30 far in the rearview mirror.

So, for young folks, turning 30 is the end of youth for some. Thank goodness, I say. Some evolutionary biologists who think about this would say we are evolutionarily designed to get a couple kids, to reproduce until maturity, and then we can let go of the rope. Well, if humans didn't reproduce reliably until they were about 15 to 18 and the next generation will be ready to reproduce at about 15 to 18 more years, that makes 30 to 36.

Now, humans evolved language, and many years that we live past our menopause are years that human females can help our daughters be more successful mothers. So there are lots of good reasons we don't die off in our mid-30s, but we are physiologically primed to be at our peak in about our early to mid-30s.

In this physical domain, there are some very real changes in function that happen in the 30s. The most important to Rachel, from the TV show "Friends," is when she has to get pair-bonded, get married, get pregnant by 35, which means she has to be pair-bonded by 30.

[Begin soundbite from "Friends" S7E14, 'The One Where They All Turn Thirty']

Rachel: You know what? I realize it was stupid to get upset about not having a husband and kids. All I really needed was a plan. See, I want to have three kids, first of the three kids by the time I'm 35, right? Which gives me five years.

So if I want to have a kid when I'm 35, I don't have to get pregnant until I'm 34. Oh, wait, but I do want to be married for a year before I get pregnant. That's three years, that's three whole years. Oh, wait a minute, though. I'll need a year and a half to plan the wedding and I'd like to know the guy for like a year, a year and a half before we get engaged, which means I'd need to meet the guy by the time I'm 30.

Ross: Which is fine because you just turned 28.

[End soundbite from "Friends" S7E14, 'The One Where They All Turn Thirty']

On average, women reach peak fertility in their 20s with the decline in fertility beginning in their late 20s, about 30. This is a pretty hard-wired clock on the decline in the number and quality of eggs left in ovaries.

Of course, many women easily conceive and have children in their 30s, but there's real biology behind Rachel's concern. So I got it when she was having a freakout that she wasn't pair-bonded by 30, so she wasn't going to be able to have a baby by 35. By we all know from "Friends," things turned out okay.

Now, for women who have not pair-bonded by 30 and don't have a baby by 35, there are some real workarounds, things that women can do if they run out of eggs. Women can freeze their eggs. They can use them later, but that's really expensive. They can use another younger woman's eggs, if they're in their late 30s or 40s and can't get pregnant because of an egg problem. But 30 is still usually a pretty fertile number, but the clock is ticking.

We reach our peak bone density in our 30s and, with respect to cardio-respiratory function and muscle building and repair, we're in our peak in our early 30s. It's not common to see elite athletes at the peak of their game after 30. But of course, there are exceptions.

Our eyes age and many people start needing reading glasses in their 30s. So we are aging. We've done our best to be the best and the strongest that we can be but, starting in our 30s, things do start to decline.

Our brains are the fastest computers when we're in our late 20s. And many famous mathematicians did all the work for which they were famous before they were 30.

All that is good for computer speed, but our frontal lobe that provides us with judgment doesn't mature until we're in our mid-20s. And there's a lot to be said about having a mature brain and not just a fast brain. We all know 18-year-old boys have really fast brains, but you don't want to drive in a car with them. So a mature brain and some life experience can lead to empathy and wisdom.

So, as mentioned, all this is from someone who's turning 30 in the rearview mirror a long time ago. So let's bring in a millennial to talk to a boomer. And one of my favorite millennials is our producer, Chloé Nguyen.

Dr. Jones: So, Chloé, can you talk about what it feels to be just after 30 in the physical domain? So how are you doing?

Chloé: I'm doing good.

Dr. Jones: Good. Have you found a gray hair yet?

Chloé: You know what, Kirtly? I do. I have lots of gray hair.

Dr. Jones: Okay. When did it start?

Chloé: Probably in my mid-20s. It started pretty early.

Dr. Jones: Oh, that's early.

Chloé: And my mom, being the ever-so-young-looking woman that she is, decided that it was because of my lack of black sesame seed. And so she's like, "If you eat or drink black sesame seed, then your hair will be black." And I listened to her for like a week and it didn't do anything.

Dr. Jones: Well, it's going to take a lot longer than a week.

Chloé: And so I stopped. I tried it for a week, it didn't work, but it works for her because she has black hair and she's in her mid-60s. So I am obviously doing something wrong.

Dr. Jones: But the question is, is your attitude different now that you're over this little 30 number, just barely? Is your attitude more accepting now? You freaked out when you were almost 30, but now that you're 30, you're totally casual about it, or are you still freaking out?

Chloé: This is like talking to a therapist. I'm okay now admitting the fact that I have gray hair. I think, back then, my mindset was, "My gosh, I don't think this is normal." But now that you mention it, now that I'm past 30, when people ask me do I have gray hair, my answer would be like, "Yeah."

Dr. Jones: "A few."

Chloé: "Of course."

Dr. Jones: So it could be that in the emotional domain you've actually come to some wonderful self-acceptance about who you are and who you're becoming. And that's something you don't get until you're 30 or over. When you're 20, emotionally, you're all about drama, drama, drama. I mean, your heart breaks and you think you're never going to get over it, and adolescents into their mid-20s, everything is drama, drama, drama and they don't have the wisdom and experience to know that they'll get over it. So the great thing about turning 30 is having a little wisdom to say, "This is fine. This is just who I am."

Chloé: You know what, Kirtly? Even though I say that I'm fine, I make sure that my hair is dyed.

Dr. Jones: Yeah, fortunately, I'm a strawberry blonde, and so my gray looks just like the rest of my hair mostly, but I don't want to go gray all over. I still want some color. So my hair before that had a lot of natural color, but as it aged, in my 30s, my hair lost its sparkle. It lost some of its color. And so my hairdresser said, "Well, why don't you just add something?" I said, "Okay." So I didn't accept it either. So we're big liars about being 30 and wise about our bodies.

Chloé: Aren't we, though? Yeah, we're like, "Okay, that's fine," but then we go and hide it.

Dr. Jones: Well, we're liars. All right. Fine.

Well, anyway, thinking about the emotional domain at 30, it turns out that, although emotionally the 20s and teens are all about drama, the peak incidence of depression is about 35.

So coming to your 30s means that you are kind of who you are and you may have a whole lot of responsibilities, you have kids, you've got a job, you're trying to juggle 10 things. And women are the most likely to have an episode of depression about their mid-30s.

So there is an emotional rhythm to our lives. And certainly, all of us who have had teenagers know that it's clouded by the drama-drama of the late teens and early 20s, but the 30s have their own emotional complexity.

I don't know if you can speak to that at all with people your age, Chloé?

Chloé: I think, for me, in my 20s and before then, it was very much about having this mindset and this image of what I want other people to view me as. And so I try really hard to . . . this is going to sound kind of depressing, but I try really hard to get other people's approval.

You're at that age where impressions from other people matter to you. And I think after turning a certain age, which we're talking about 30, I don't know if there was just a sudden click on my 30th birthday that suddenly I don't care anymore, but I think you gradually learn, as you grow, somewhere in your late 20s to your early 30s, other people's opinions still matter but my opinion of myself matters more.

A big element to that would be I'm 30, I'm past 30, and I haven't started a family. I'm not quite at that mindset yet in my life, even though a lot of women at my age are.

And so I was getting a lot of push from my family about starting a family, and I think, gradually, as I get older each year, I've now accepted the fact that I should be doing it on my terms, on my timetable. And so that's kind of what I mean about gradually growing into yourself, being more accepting of myself, rather than what other people think of me.

Dr. Jones: That's a very powerful insight into being 30. It's a very powerful reality of being in your 30s that you come to a sense of finding that your timeline is your own and it's not a social timeline.

When you're in your teens or 20s, it's all about what other people think of you and what you think you should be. But coming to yourself in your 30s means that you are trying to come to acceptance with who you are. It's your timeline. You come to love yourself. It's hard to love yourself in your 20s, but it's an important concept to come to grips with when you're in your 30s.

Moving on just a little bit in the social domain, the social domain, there are lots of pressures, I think, from society as to what you're supposed to be doing. And I was doing some reading about the Chinese culture. Certain birthdays pass, and in Chinese culture, when you get to be 30, people feel like they are "leftovers." By 30, they're exhausted with dealing with emotion and society's expectations and they might be spinsters. And that's been true in European culture and British culture too. Although it was often by the time you were 25, you were a leftover.

And I know you're not Chinese, but as you were talking about the expectations you felt from your family, how do you feel in the culture from which your family arises? Is there some expectation that, by 30, you're kind of a leftover, or is that just Chinese women?

Chloé: Like you mentioned, I think it's across the board in all cultures. Yes, I'm not Chinese, but I feel like there are some elements of different Asian cultures that overlap and I think those are some of the parts that, unfortunately, are similar.

I, fortunately, have been lucky enough to have been raised and grown up here and be adaptive in the American society where it's not so much like, "I'm being left over now that I'm 30. My life is just done."

But I think if I were back in Vietnam, I honestly think if my setting had been different, if I had been raised in Vietnam, I think I would have been married by now. I don't know whether that's by choice or pressure to start a family. That's expected. It's expected that, by 30, you should have established a family. And I think my life would've been different.

Dr. Jones: Right. And I think the 30 thing comes from more traditional cultures. Even in this culture, people were expected to have achieved some social milestones, and that includes being pair-bonded or married and have children. But fewer and fewer women are getting married, and fewer and fewer women and couples are having children.

And more and more women do not feel that they are defined by their marital relationship or their children. Even if they are married and have kids, more women are not defining themselves by that social norm.

They might define themselves by some other, either spiritual or financial or job-related things, but I think fewer and fewer women are defining themselves by marriage and family, which means that that 30 transition is a little less important.

Chloé: Yeah, I think so. One example that comes right to my mind is the Japanese culture. There's been a lot of news in the recent years about how Japanese women are, like you said, taking charge of their careers and their lives and what they want to do with it, and not so much, "My responsibility, as a woman, as a wife, is to stay home and take care of the kids and to cook dinner."

And I will say this. There are many women that choose, it's their decision, to stay home, to take care of the family.

Dr. Jones: Absolutely.

Chloé: There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I think those women are just as brave, just as strong. They're probably more tired than we are. When I say "we," I mean people that don't have to stay home, take care of the family, and then go to work.

I consider myself very lucky that I don't have to do both jobs full-time because I consider . . . Those are full-time jobs always, 24/7. You don't stop being a mom after eight hours a day. Kudos to those women who choose to do that, and then there are some women who choose to do both, and I think those people are superhuman.

Dr. Jones: But I do think that, even for mothers, being a new mom is like, "Am I doing this right?" or this, that, and the other. And everybody experiences that, but by the time you get into your 30s, and maybe you've been a mother for one, and you've got that underneath your belt, you're much more confident in who you are as a mother.

So if motherhood is part of one's primary identity . . . I will say, for most women, even if they've got amazing jobs, once you have a kid, this little switch gets flipped that makes the mother role just predominant. But once you get into your mid-30s, you're really more willing and able to accept who you are, what you are, and your mothering style than, "Oh my goodness, I have to do this or that." Although, clearly, every new parent is an amateur, and all of us are kind of flailing around to try to do it right.

Well, in the financial domain, in your 20s if you're lucky enough to have been sheltered in an academic environment, meaning you've had a chance to go to college and maybe grad school, you're just ready to get the job that you trained for. The 30s means you finally have your boots on. You're dressed for the job. You've got your boots on, or you've got your scrubs on, or whatever you've been training for. It's your 30s that you really get to do it.

Now, if you didn't get to go to college or didn't want to, you might now have the experience to be promoted in your job. So even if you didn't have advanced degrees to do the job that you're doing, if you're doing the job well, then you'll get promoted.

And, in fact, you may have had several jobs, so your CV, your curriculum vitae allows you to get even better jobs. So women in their 30s, if they're working outside the home, are often beginning to hit their strides financially. And I think that's pretty amazing.

They also have to kind of think about, "It's time to start saving." In your 20s, you can say, "I can do that later. I need to get my apartment, I need to get my fancy phone, I need to get my fancy wheels," whatever. In your 30s, you're starting to say, "I think it's time for me to put a little bit away."

So this is my take on it, because that's what happened to me and that's what I've seen. As a boomer, it's what I saw my cohort of women do. So how about your cohort of women, Chloé? Do you think women are beginning to hit their stride in their 30s with respect to their professional life?

Chloé: I don't know. I feel like it's double-sided because, as a millennial, I will say that I think we work really hard. We try really hard to provide for ourselves and the people around us, if we have to, but then I go on social media and there are so many people that say that millennials are lazy and that we don't know how to save, so we can't buy any houses and whatnot. And I'm like, "You know what? The housing prices have gone way up since you guys bought a house."

So I don't know. I can only speak as a millennial. I think we work really hard, and I think being financially independent now at the age of 30 and in your 30s looks a lot different depending on the generation that you come from.

Dr. Jones: I'm quite sure that's true. Things were different. We were expected to be out of the home by the time we were 20. We were expected to be pretty much on our way and, indeed, financially independent by then.

And I think that our parents were expecting that of us too because, remember, our parents had gone off to war, so they were pretty much on their own when they were in their late teens and early 20s.

So you're right, the 30s looks different for millennials than it probably looked for boomers, for sure.

Well, I was thinking about the environmental domain, because I think when you're in your 20s and your teens, you're really wanting to pay attention to where you are living for what's fun, but the safety and health of your environment is not number one on your list.

But by the time you're getting to figure out who you are, what you need, and what you want, the places where you live and the health of your environment becomes a bigger deal for you. Maybe that's not true for you, but it certainly was for me.

Chloé: There are two folds I think to that. One, I don't know that my age had so much to do with it, and I hate to admit it, but the political environment that we are in right now.

The reason why I don't attach it to age is because I've noticed that my parents, my mom especially . . . It's definitely not an age thing for her, but I think it's my influence on her, and we influence each other. But we are very much more conscious now of recycling, of cutting down our carbon footprint, of making sure that we don't throw things in the garbage that shouldn't be there. It's stuff like that. It's more about kind of where we are now in our country and in our society.

Dr. Jones: On our planet.

Chloé: Yeah, and our planet, exactly. And our planet is aging at a rapid rate that is definitely not good. It's more of that. It has nothing to do with my age of turning 30.

But I will say a little bit further away from that, my mindset, now that I am 30, goes along with the idea of starting a family. My mindset right now, at this moment, is that I do not want my kids, if I have kids, to live in a world where air pollution is all they breathe in, to experience the Earth, essentially, breaking down. I need to first make it better.

Dr. Jones: This is a mature brain.

Chloé: That probably has to do with a little bit more of my age.

Dr. Jones: Yes, it's that being able to see beyond yourself. Part of being an adolescent and even into the 20s, you don't always see beyond yourself. Being able to see beyond yourself and the consequences of your actions and owning them, that's really a 30s thing. It's beginning to own the consequences of your actions, and that includes environmental consequences. So, yeah, I think you're right there.

I was going to go on to the intellectual domain because I've been thinking about the difference between a fast brain and a good brain. A really great brain turns into an experienced and wise brain.

So there's evidence that there is a slow decline in working memory, meaning your ability to remember what happened a minute ago and an hour ago and a day ago. That's your working memory. And after 30, there's a decline in your working memory. But there's other data that says that verbal ability, abstract reasoning, spatial reasoning, are all better in your 30s.

So the brain gets more integrated. Yes, it's not the fastest brain on the planet, but being in your 30s means that finally your brain is beginning to put things together.

I don't know whether you can actually see the different parts of your brain, all the seven domains of your brain, being able to work together in a way that it wasn't 10 years ago?

Chloé: I've noticed I've been really good at multitasking more. I don't know if that's contributing to my fast brain. Again, we keep saying it, but I think wisdom comes with age. I think I'm able to think more, I'm able to comprehend more, I'm able to look beyond just the surface of a problem more.

Dr. Jones: Right. So that is part of a maturing brain. So we don't have that ability so well in our mid-20s. And in our 30s, we're able to do that a little bit better and we have enough experience to start connecting things.

It's hard to be wise before you're 30. And I believe that, as I watch people grow, it comes to them in their 30s. And you should welcome that, to actually come to some sense of wisdom, empathy, the kinds of things that take both time and a brain that's organized enough to do it. And that means your 30s.

Well, I'm going to move to the spiritual domain. And again, the adolescent brain, the adolescent personality is always about me, me, me, me, me. And beginning with adulthood, in the late 20s and 30s, people may want to feel part of something bigger than themselves. They are seeking to tap into their spirituality. Work and family may make this hard, but it's really more important than ever.

And I would say self-care is more than a facial or a mani-pedi or a day off. And in your 30s, it's about developing your spiritual life in a way that will sustain you the rest of your years. Women, in particular, start thinking a little bit bigger than themselves in their 30s.

So I think that turning 30 is a really remarkable space for one's cognitive ability and one's spiritual ability. Yes, maybe you've got a gray hair here or there, or maybe you can't run as fast if you're a miler or a multi-miler, or maybe you don't recover from a lot of physical activity as quickly as you could, but your brain now is a mature brain. And I'll tell you, I think that's something to welcome.

As we talk about whether a number like 30 is actually meaningful, it isn't meaningful per se in just that number, but clearly there are some physiologic and health changes and social changes and emotional changes that make a woman in her mid-30s substantially more substantial in herself, in her wisdom, in the strength of her body than she was in her mid-20s.

So I would consider it's something that you could look forward to. Maybe you're not young anymore, but all I can say is thank God for that.

Let's finish with the "Turning 30" haiku.

You are turning 30
A little touch of wisdom
Loves your strong body

So thanks for joining us on "The 7 Domains of Women's Health." Our goal is to start a conversation about women's health with the other women in your life, and the men, of course.

Catch some of our other topics at our website womens7.com, or anywhere where you get your podcasts. Stay tuned for the "7 Domains of Turning 50" coming up in the future. Thanks for joining us. Bye.