S1E12: Grey's Anatomy 14x01 Review

Bushra: Hello?

Margaux: Oh wait, this is . . . Why is this in pictures? It's a story.

Harjit: Hello.

Bushra: Oh my god, I have to sneeze.

Harjit: Sneeze, sneeze, sneeze.

Bushra: Hold on, hold on.

Margaux: I just wanted a picture of Chloe holding . . .

Bushra: Oh, it passed.

Margaux: It's not working.

Bushra: It's like right there.

Harjit: It's right there.

Bushra: I can't sneeze.

Margaux: Hey, we're "Bundle of Hers." And today in the studio we have me, Margaux, Bushra, and Harjit. And you'll probably notice we're all in a much happier mood today because we have finished our finals for our metabolism and reproduction unit. So that's exciting.

Bushra: Good riddance. Yeah.

Harjit: I know.

Margaux:And by the time you hear this, we'll have already had a week of our new course, which is circulation, respiration, and . . .

Bushra: Regulation.

Margaux:Renal? Regulation.

Harjit: Oh, it's regulation?

Margaux: Renal.

Bushra: Yeah. Surprise, huh?

Margaux: Who was paying attention this morning?

Harjit: Bushra was.

Margaux: Yeah, she was. And so we actually had a nice long weekend and Leen went down back to Southern Utah to visit her family and she hasn't made it back up to Salt Lake yet. So that's why she's not with us in studio.

Bushra: We miss you, Leen.

Margaux: We do miss you, Leen. But since we had a whole free weekend with no studying, Bushra and I are diehard "Grey's Anatomy" fans. And for those of you who know, "Grey's Anatomy" came out . . . the new season premiere was on Thursday, which was right before our last final, so we didn't get to watch it, but we both watched it as soon as the finals were over.

And so we are thinking about talking about "Grey's Anatomy" today and just doctors and medicine, how it's portrayed on TV.

And so if you watch "Grey's Anatomy" and haven't seen the premiere, spoiler alert.

Bushra: You've been warned, folks. So I started watching "Grey's Anatomy" since Season 1 and have kind of kept up with it. I feel like I have a different perspective on it because I started watching it before I had any medical background. But now, as a med student, kind of seeing this show from that perspective has changed heavily because it's not very realistic, I would say.

Margaux: I agree with that. I've also been watching since Season 1, but I binge watched it during college. So Season 1 through 8 maybe, in college. And I wasn't 100% sure I was going to go into medicine then either, but I think it was influential in a way in exciting me about going into medicine.

I do remember that when I was applying, the first time I didn't get accepted and then the second time I got waitlisted. Every time "Grey's Anatomy" would come back on air, I would actually get more excited and recharged about reapplying to medicine. So, in a way, it's kind of been an undertone in helping encourage me to get here.

Bushra: Do you think it creates a version of what medicine is like that's unrealistic?

Margaux: Oh, totally.

Bushra: So how do you combat that with what it actually is?

Margaux: So I distinctly remember watching "Grey's Anatomy" at home one day, at my parents' house when I was home from college, and my dad watched an episode. He watched 10 minutes of an episode with me and he was like, "This is so unrealistic and so stupid," and just left. I was like, "How could you?"

And then I did actually shadow in the OR in college, and I was half expecting the patient to code or have a seizure and it'll be very dramatic. And it wasn't like that.

Bushra: Yeah, it's so dramatic.

Margaux: It was so calm and controlled and the patient was fine. And I was kind of like, "Oh, I think my expectations of what surgery is from 'Grey's Anatomy' are not real."

Bushra: And the scope of practice is kind of all over the place. You see surgeons doing things that they normally wouldn't do. I worked in the OR for two and a half years and I've yet to see a surgeon intubate anybody. But on "Grey's Anatomy" it's like a constant thing.

And the thing that I noticed the most is they're just barking orders and they're very stoic and they're very "I'm in charge" kind of thing. That's how they're portrayed on the show. And it's kind of interesting because that . . . I'll speak for myself. I thought, "Okay, so that's how surgeons need to act. In order to be a good surgeon, you have to be . . ."

Margaux: Stoic and . . .

Bushra: Yeah, stoic and cold and in charge.

Margaux: Have romantic failures.

Bushra: Who knows? That might actually be true.

Margaux: Fair point.

Bushra: But should we talk about the episode that we watched?

Margaux: Yeah. So Harjit has never seen "Grey's Anatomy" until yesterday where she watched the first 20-ish minutes of the first episode. So Harjit, why don't you start us off and just tell us your first impressions of "Grey's Anatomy" having never seen it before?

Harjit: Okay. So I actually had never heard of "Grey's Anatomy" until I started college.

Bushra: Gasp.

Harjit: I know. So I was in college and I heard about it and then I was like, "Oh, maybe I should start watching it," but I never got into it. Last year we were in . . . I think it was Foundations, and Bushra was like . . . We learned something and Bushra was like, "Oh my gosh, I totally saw this in 'Grey's Anatomy.'" Then I realized she would say that almost every other day and I was like, "I need to watch this show," but again, didn't watch it.

So last night, I was like, "Oh, let me check out the show since we'll be talking about it tomorrow." My first impression was, "This is a cheesy drama."

Bushra: Fair enough.

Harjit: I was like, "Oh my gosh." It kind of reminded me . . .

Bushra: So dramatic.

Harjit: It reminded me of my childhood because I used to watch Indian dramas throughout my childhood. I wouldn't watch American television. I only watched like two shows. I watched "Fresh Prince of Bel-Air" and "Full House." I remember watching it and I was like, "Oh my god, this is reminding me of that. People die and then they come back." I think her name was Megan. She came back. And there were so many triangles and squares, love interests.

You know one thing that I did find interesting about the show, though? They had so many things going on within 20 minutes I saw it. There was this case, and then they were seeing this child, so there was that case.

One thing that I thought that really . . . I was like, "This is different," is because I've watched "House," which is another medical show, but they usually just keep one case throughout the whole episode. And I thought it was interesting that there were so many cases going on at the same time.

Margaux: Can I ask you, did you notice anything different or did anything stand out about you about the actors themselves and the roles that they played in the hospital?

Harjit: Yeah. Actually, something did stand out to me. Again, "House" is my only reference. House was in charge. Even though I think House's boss was a woman, but he was mostly the one who was taking all the decisions. But I remember watching "Grey's" last night and I noticed it was so many female surgeons, a lot of people of color, and I thought it was nice just to see the whole variety. Has it always been like that?

Bushra: Yeah. I feel like they did a good . . . Shonda Rhimes is the person that created this masterpiece, if I may say so myself.

Margaux: Agreed.

Bushra: And I think because of her, that's the reason why she, I think, thoughtfully placed people in certain roles.

The one character from the very beginning that I was very impressed with was Dr. Bailey, who started out as a resident, a second-year resident or something, but she was kind of powerful even though she was a resident. And she was super thoughtful, calm, collected, and strong, progressed and followed her journey from being a doctor, being a wife, having children, and also excelling at her career and kind of the struggles that go with that.

Harjit: That's awesome.

Margaux: It's definitely been a very natural progression of watching her earn her way to becoming chief. And it's a very well-deserved position. I think we all find ourselves rooting for her to be where she is. And she's a very good character for that role.

And so what I really loved about the new episode is . . . and I noticed this too. It was like the first few scenes she was sitting on the stairs watching the construction of the nurse's station that had fallen down, and she kept rubbing her feet and was holding her heels. I turned to Diego and I was like, "See, heels are made for women to slow down purposefully. Women should not wear heels in power positions." When you're a professional, why should you have to wear heels if you have to run around the hospital?

And then sure enough, later in the episode, she was throwing away all her heels and she grabbed her surgical clogs. And I was like, "Yeah, see, this is a great message that you don't have to wear heels to be a woman in power."

Bushra: To be taken seriously.

Margaux: Right.

Bushra: Yeah. It's kind of interesting though. I mean, heels are freaking cute to wear.

Harjit: Oh, yes.

Margaux: Right. But they hurt.

Bushra: They put an outfit together so cute, but walking around in those babies for a couple hours, you're hating yourself and your feet are asking for mercy. And so I thought that was kind of funny that she got rid of them and started wearing her surgical clogs. That's what she was wearing before she got this position anyway, so why should she have to change herself to be taken seriously or to . . .

Margaux: Meet societal expectations of what a professional woman should look like.

Bushra: Right. Yeah.

Harjit: Bushra, you said you started watching since the first season. How old were you when you started?

Bushra: I was young. I was probably like 6th grade-ish. I mean, I probably shouldn't have been watching it at that age, to be honest. There's some stuff in there that's not really meant for children.

But I was interested in the medical aspect of it. I thought it was super interesting to kind of get a sneak peek, although a dramatic sneak peek, of what surgeons do and their roles and stuff like that. And so I think that kind of pushed me through, "Oh, I kind of have an interest in medicine." I think that's why I kind of get into a lot of medical shows too.

Harjit: That's cool.

Bushra: I feel like I've seen pretty much . . . You name it, I've probably have watched it before. And then for me, I think what made me stick to "Grey's Anatomy" is because of the characters on the show, particularly the female characters, like Dr. Bailey. I already mentioned her. And Cristina Yang, who's also a freaking badass. She seems very heartless in the very beginning, but she's more complex than what meets the eye. She's very smart and she's very skilled, and she knows that, but she comes off as robotic. But there are so many . . .

Harjit: She has so many layers.

Margaux:So many levels, yeah.

Harjit: But you know what? Just a side point, I noticed a lot of the times we make first assumptions of especially women, and they have a certain way they talk or maybe they don't open up as easily. There are a lot of assumptions made. And I think it's really cool that they showed that in the show.

Again, I haven't seen the whole show, but I think that oftentimes women . . . sometimes you'll see them that they're closed off, they're not friendly. It's like you can be too friendly, you can be less friendly. There's always this thing. There's no perfect person. But honestly, it's not needed because that's what creates society, right? Having complex lives and complex things about us. So I think that's really cool.

Bushra: Another thing that I thought was very cool is the relationship between Cristina and Meredith and other groups of women in the show where it's like, yeah, they're competitive with each other, but they also uplift each other and they support each other.

Harjit: Oh, that's nice.

Bushra: Which I don't think is portrayed very often on TV.

Harjit: No.

Bushra: It's mostly women pitting each other against each other. And the fact that they started out as competitors but they gained mutual respect and friendship for each other and they just kind of uplifted each other, I feel like that's what I have with you guys.

Harjit: Yeah, I feel like that too.

Margaux: I was just going to ask . . . What's Karev's girlfriend's name?

Bushra: Jo.

Margaux: Jo. Yeah. So in the show, Stephanie was "Jo's person," and she had just left. And so Jo through this episode was trying to find her new person and confiding in different people and not quite finding her place. So I thought that was a really interesting dynamic and it has been a theme that has been recurring.

And like you just said, Bushra, I feel like you guys are my people that when I need to talk about something or get something off my chest or need some encouragement, I come to you guys. And I think that's a very integral part of going through medical school and probably residency and then being a doctor.

Harjit: I feel like that's a point that's really not put across, but I do see even in our class, a lot of the women, we uplift each other and we're each other's support. And also, I've noticed that with my sister when she did her residency, there were a lot of other co-residents she had that were really her support system. Again, that's just something that's not portrayed, but it can be, and it is a reality for a lot of us.

Margaux: Right. So going back to reality, and in the episode, they had a group of fourth-year medical students who were doing supposedly their sub-I, so their sub-internal . . . What does sub-I stand for?

Bushra: Sub-internship.

Harjit: Sub-internship.

Bushra: Hold on, let me get it out. Sorry.

Margaux: Bushra's has been sick. She spent her free weekend sick.

Harjit: I know. It's her immune system was up, so you wouldn't get . . .

Bushra:Cortisol.

Margaux: Cortisol was up. The immune system was suppressed.

Harjit:Yes.

Margaux:Science. So back to the reality aspect and drawing parallels with our class and our experience in medical school, what did you guys think of the way they portrayed this "top 10%" of their class group of fourth-year medical students?

Bushra: I thought it was hilarious. I think they were trying to play at the fact that they're millennials, and so everyone's on their phone, they're taking notes on their devices, not very engaging, very distant.

And so Dr. Weber, who was the former chief, is just trying to get them more engaged and be people and be interactive and learn by seeing and doing and not necessarily taking notes on every single little detail. But they kind of portrayed the fourth-year medical students as basically inept.

Margaux: Yeah, that was kind of silly. I think point that I got from it was that the smartest people in the class don't always make the best doctors, which maybe I just thought to make myself feel better.

But I do think that it was a little unrealistic because fourth-year medical students would have already rotated in the OR. And so they would have already learned the etiquette of being in an OR, not to wear your glasses, or at least not to tape them so they don't fall, and to want to have the drive to scrub in on a surgery. They kind of portrayed these students as oblivious to what it meant to be involved in a surgery. And I don't think any gunner "medical student" would ever miss that opportunity.

Harjit:I also was like, "This isn't realistic because usually they know something about what's going on." I remember there was one character, she was on her phone recording everything that the doctor was saying. And I was like, "This is so unrealistic." I don't think I've ever seen this and I don't think I would ever see that.

Margaux:Yeah. But to Bushra's point, I think that as millennials, we do tend to kind of live in our technology.

Harjit: Yeah, I agree.

Margaux: Especially during the first two years of medical school when you're just doing book learning, right? That is how you learn for the first two years, is studying your tablet and your phone and doing flashcards and living in the textbook. But then like third and fourth year are very much for the experience.

And so I think it's kind of navigating the line of being a millennial and figuring out how you make the step from learning in the real world, which technology doesn't always let you do. So I think that aspect of it is very true as younger generations come up into medicine.

Harjit: I kind of have a question for both of you. So I think we've discussed how "Grey's Anatomy" is very realistic, but also at some points unrealistic. What has kept you guys engaged and wanting to watch the show over and over again?

Bushra: I think for me it's been kind of cyclical. There are points in time where I was super invested in it, and other times where I'm like, "I don't care about any of this that's going on." And then all of a sudden, they'll pique my interest on a character or something.

But I think it's kind of fun the way that they present cases. They have interesting cases and they'll take out real-world examples, stuff that happens in the news, and they'll incorporate an episode on that.

Harjit: Oh, cool.

Margaux: Yeah, so the abdominal wall transplant that they did on the last episode, that is something that they have just started doing. So it is a new concept that then they incorporate into "Grey's Anatomy," which I think is a great learning experience in that way because it kind of takes it in a fun twist.

Bushra: And also, I will say the reason why I'm like, "Oh my gosh, they totally had a 'Grey's Anatomy' episode on that," is because . . . I don't know. I feel it's easier to remember stuff that we learned in school when I can relate it because I've seen it before. Like Boerhaave syndrome, there is an episode of "Grey's Anatomy" on that. Neurocysticercosis. There's a bunch of stuff that I learned.

Harjit: And yesterday they had the malrotation. I was like, "I just learned this. I just had a final on this."

Margaux: And it's fun when you can predict it before the doctor's reveal it.

Bushra: Yeah, you're trying to do a freaking HPI and a differential and stuff in your head to see what they have and see if you're right.

Margaux: And that's kind of fun for sure.

Harjit: Actually, I want to go back. And like I said, again, I've seen "House." I remember that time I would just watch it and I was more understanding the drama, but I thought it was so cool because he would . . . it was almost more investigative. He would get a case and by the end he'd figure out what was wrong, and his team. I think it'd be interesting to go back and watch "House."

Margaux: Definitely.

Harjit: Because at that time, I don't think I had the terms or the understanding around any of this. So I wonder how I would feel going back and watching it. A part of me just wants to try that out.

Bushra: I think it's kind of fun when they mispronounce medical words. And you're like, "Yeah, you're definitely not in medicine."

Margaux: I've heard that "House" is actually, in terms of the way they present the diseases, pretty medically accurate. And so I think, like you said, it would be fun to go back and start watching "House" again to see if you could predict what it is before they do by the end.

Harjit: And also, I feel like that show really helped me in the path that I was going. I started watching it when I think I was in 7th grade or 8th grade. It really helped out. I loved it.

So what other shows do you guys usually watch that are medical related?

Bushra: Some shows that I loved actually in high school . . . They started doing reality-type shows where they actually go into hospitals and follow doctors around. There's "Hopkins," "New York Med," "Boston Med," a whole host of different facilities basically.

This is, I feel like, more realistic because these are real doctors and real patients. And it just kind of got me a little bit more excited because you get to see their real lives and not the overdramatized sleeping with the interns.

Margaux: Which is not allowed, by the way, in any hospital.

Bushra: All that extra stuff. It was focused more on the medicine of it.

Margaux: So I also watched a show called "Rescue 911" when I was really young, and it would terrify my sister. And my dad was just kind of like, "Why are you so into these really bloody gory shows?" But yeah, that was a reality one too.

Bushra: I used to watch TLC with my mom where they had birthing, like OB.

Harjit: Really?

Bushra: Yeah, she was so into it, and I was like, "Oh my god, is that what happens when a woman gives birth? Is that what happens in a C-section?"

Margaux: Like in the toilet or something?

Bushra: Yeah, it was insane.

Harjit:My very first initial interest into medicine, I saw this PBS documentary and I saw a heart surgery and I was like, "I want to be a doctor." I was in kindergarten and since then I'm like, "Oh my god, I want to be a doctor because I saw this."

But then that kind of really brings up an important point I think that sometimes people don't have access to resources where they can see medicine, or they don't grow up in that environment. So I think it's really good. That's, I think, the most positive thing about them, is people who don't have those opportunities can just through TV kind of see, "Oh, this is what happens. And this is what a physician's career entails," even though it's not 100% accurate. But it could start piquing their interest.

Margaux: Piquing excitement about medicine, for sure.

Bushra: I remember back in the day there was this PBS documentary that followed Harvard medical students back in, I want to say, the '80s, and they started as first-year med students up until they graduated med school. And then they had a reunion, I want to say, 10 years later. And so they got to see every aspect, even during their residency.

I remember watching that as a kid and kind of thinking, "Oh my gosh, med school is really hard. And even while you're going through it, you might not enjoy every single moment of it and you might not see the light at the end of the tunnel, but people do it every single day, and it's kind of taking the struggles in stride and maintaining some sort of balance."

And then you got to see kind of the impact of their personal lives and school and how they kind of dealt with all of that. I really liked that documentary because it was super . . . it didn't really sugarcoat anything. It was like, "This stuff is hard. And you should be 100% sure that this is what you want to do for the rest of your life before you commit to it, because financially and emotionally it's going to be taxing." I always kind of reference that, like, "Okay, am I ready for this? Am I ready to commit to this kind of thing?"

Margaux: Yeah, that's definitely something where "Grey's Anatomy" falls short, is representing how much time a surgical resident spends and is overworked. They had a scene where Alex and Meredith were having lunch on a ferry or some park. And I was like, "When do they have time to go have lunch leisurely and then go back to the hospital?"

So I definitely think that show shows how hard . . . that documentary you were talking about, Bushra, is also an important piece to showing people who don't have access to medicine to know that it is not just all fun and games and drama. It is a lot of hard work and you will be overworked. I would be interested to go back and watch that now, though, knowing that it took place a couple decades ago.

Bushra: Yeah, it's definitely different than I think my experience now. I feel like our generation is more tech savvy, and so that makes things a little bit easier. But also, there's just a lot more information to know now than . . .

Harjit: Because things change and you have to learn the history of things and then where we are right now.

Bushra: I think we're more in tune with mental health and kind of dealing with our issues versus trying not to break down or burn out.

Margaux: I could imagine for a woman in that documentary it must have been a very different story than we live now. Like you were just talking about, mental health and being aware of our emotions is kind of a big thing that we have now in our generation in medical school. And I think one thing that I've been attracted to about "Grey's Anatomy" is the emotional aspect. I think at least 90% of the episodes, I'm always bawling by the end.

Harjit: Oh, really?

Margaux: And I think that the fact that they can really play on those human . . . not dramas, but the human emotions of what it means to take care of someone who's sick and have a patient die and to be allowed to cry with the doctors has been very empowering for me.

And so I think that shows like "Grey's Anatomy" and other medical shows that allow doctors to make that connection is important. So hopefully, through this next block,,we'll find time to watch the episodes . . .

Bushra: We'll definitely make time.

Margaux: . . . in between studying. But thank you, as our listeners, for taking time to listen to our podcast. We really appreciate that. And as always, if you have any comments, we'd love for you to leave a review or a comment on iTunes or wherever you download podcasts. Don't forget to subscribe, and thank you for listening.

Harjit: Thank you.

Bushra: Bye-bye.