S1E26: Dare to Be Visible

Bushra: Shall we start?

Margaux: Yes.

Bushra: Okay.

Harjit: Wait, one minute.

Bushra: What?

Harjit: Okay, let's start. In three, two, one.

Bushra: Why are we doing this right now? Welcome to the "Bundle of Hers," everybody. This is Bushra. And I have Margaux and Harjit in the studio with us.

Today, I just want to kind of discuss why we care about speaking up and having a voice. And for me, I think it's important to be visible and to have your voice heard because, primarily, you are going to be an advocate for yourself and people like you and people who think like you. And so when you stay quiet and when you let things pass by, it's a missed opportunity.

I feel like a lot of people have gotten into the pattern of letting those opportunities be missed. And so, for me, although it took a while to get here, that's my primary goal of speaking out.

Margaux: So, Bushra, I think this is a really great topic, and I think maybe part of one of the reasons why we did start the "Bundle of Hers" is to make our voices be heard.

I think it's very important to speak out when you feel like something is not right or one of your needs is not being met, because people around you, it may not even be a problem for them, and they may not know it's a problem for you until you talk to them about it.

And it doesn't have to be speaking out in a negative way or fighting with somebody. It could just be something like mentioning or having a conversation and bringing to light this issue that is unique to you.

For me, personally, it's really hard sometimes to know when to speak up and to have the courage to speak up. But usually, when I have done it, it's been very positive and rewarding.

Harjit: A lot of the time, like Margaux said, people might not know what you feel unless you say it. Also, I think that a lot of times, the way to diminish people's presence or their identities is so that they are . . . there are no voices present.

For me, I feel like that's the reason why I speak out, is because I want to make sure that my community, the people I represent, the person I am, the identities I'm a part of, they're not lost.

Bushra: Yeah, that makes sense. One thing that Margaux brought up that I kind of want to discuss is . . . you said the word courage, having that courage to be active and be vocal. It does take a lot of courage to make yourself visible. And so where do you get that strength or confidence to dare to be heard?

Just from my own personal experience in the past, growing up, in high school, most of college, I would say that I kept to myself. I didn't want to ruffle any feathers. I was quiet. I felt like I couldn't speak out. I think it's several factors that went into it. And so I struggled finding that courage to finally say, "Hey, this is what I think," or, "Hey, what you're doing is wrong. XYZ."

So I just kind of want to throw that out to you, guys. Where did you guys find that courage?

Margaux: So I think that's really important that there's a lot of courage involved. And I think, unfortunately, what drives a lot of people to speak out initially is anger and extreme emotion. They finally get to the point where the straw has broken the camel's back, and they have no choice, like you were saying, Harjit, but to speak out. And that's not always a great place to be because then sometimes your words are not always translated the way you want them to be.

And so I think, initially, for me, I was like you, Bushra. I was very quiet and kept to myself, and I usually didn't dare to speak out. But now, I come from a place of really quickly recognizing something that I don't like, and I now can bring it up in a very calm dialogue with somebody about it, rather than an outburst of emotion, right?

Bushra: Yeah, that's an excellent point that you make, because you can't make someone listen to you, especially when it comes from a place of anger. More likely than not, they're not going to take you seriously at that point. And so when you go back and rationalize and calm down and put those feelings into words, then it becomes undeniable, right?

Harjit: Yeah. That's the common situation. People only listen to you if you're calm and collected. However, I don't know if I think that's very fair sometimes. I mean, it is the reality, but is it something I fully agree with? Maybe not all the time, because there are times where you do say things at anger because, like you said, the water has reached a certain level. And the thing is, if you say it, you want someone to receive it as well.

I think that also takes a lot of patience, too. Actually, when people are angry and talking to you, what I try to do is really understand where they're coming from, what they mean. And the truth is maybe a lot of people don't.

I think with courage, for me, at least in my family and the community I grew up in, we were raised to not speak. That was the thing. You don't say anything. You just do what is told. That's how life goes. And I think where I got that courage was from my elder sisters.

For the longest time, my oldest sister, she stayed quiet. She stayed quiet for years. I think she was in high school when she started like, "My voice needs to be heard." Because the consequence was going to be that she'd graduate high school, get married to someone she didn't know, and then have kids. And that was a life she was like, "I cannot live this life. I want to make my own choices."

So literally, for her, it was a survival mechanism. And I think it is a survival mechanism for many people, just to speak out. So half the time, it's not even the courage. It's just you can't see your life being a different way, so you have to say something.

Margaux: So, Harjit, do you think that your sister, having spoken out about this, helped you and opened the dialogue for you to not have to speak out in the same way and kind of opened the doors in that way?

Harjit: Yeah, 100%. I think that's one of the biggest gifts my elder sisters have given to me, was that. So in that way, they gave me the courage. I got that courage from the women in my life. I would also say I've gotten that courage from seeing the women who didn't speak out in my life as well.

Margaux: True.

Bushra: Yeah, I feel like you hit the nail on the head. That was kind of the transformative factor for me, is that when I saw people who said something, said what was on their mind, spoke out, they got what they wanted. But for me, if I didn't ask, then I'd be stuck in the same place, right?

Harjit: Right.

Margaux: Right.

Bushra: If I didn't say anything, then nobody would know. And so that's what I think drove me to be more vocal about the things that I believe in, be more vocal about my values and where I see myself going and things that I want improvements on, stuff like that.

Margaux: Yeah. So I think that's a really good segue, the improvement part, Bushra, to an experience that I've had in medical school. And I think, Harjit, you were there with me last year when we did our interprofessional learning experience, where basically, we, as medical students, went to the pharmacy building and did kind of a patient presentation, case-based learning with pharmacy students, nursing students, therapy students.

And I remember, at break, we went to the bathroom, and there was a fourth-year medical student pumping milk, breast pumping.

Harjit: Oh, yeah.

Margaux: And I was so shocked because it was so uncomfortable for her. She was in this dark bathroom, in the corner, and I was like, "Is there really not a better place for you?" Not that she shouldn't . . . I was just like, "Oh my god, how could they not have a place for you to do this comfortably?"

Harjit: Like a lactation room or something.

Margaux: Right, a lactation room. And so come to find out, the only lactation room is in the library here for the doctors and the medical students and the pharmacy students. And to me, that's absurd because there's at least 50% female students represented across the disciplines.

And so the first thing in my mind was rage, and I was like, "This makes me so mad." I wanted to yell and make my voice heard in that moment. But I was like, "No, how can I make an impact with my words?"

And so I went to find whoever was in charge of planning the new medical school building and had a discussion with them about the need for more lactation rooms and support for parents and mothers in medical school, and probably in the other disciplines as well.

So that's one way that I have kind of learned to redirect the things that I see that need to be heard and turn them into actionable things.

And I think that's really hard to do, is take a step back when you're having those emotions of, "This needs to change, and this is not right," to figure out how to make it happen.

Like you said, Harjit, maybe that's not the fair thing, and in reality, that's what happens. Ideally, everybody would see and make a world where everyone helps each other, but that's unfortunately not the world that we live in.

Bushra: The reason why a lot of people don't share or don't speak up or are less visible is because they fear consequences, the consequences of doing so. And while that may be true, what I would advise to people is to make a risk-benefit analysis, right?

If the risk is speaking up, what is the worst possible outcome that could happen? And more likely than not, the outcome isn't as bad as what you think it is.

That's something that I kind of had to cope with in this long journey. I don't really like the word journey, but whatever. We'll use it. It's getting away from that fear, because I felt like that fear was placed upon me, and it's not something that I innately had. It hits you at every level, I feel like.

Margaux: Yeah. Especially as medical students, I think we feel, for lack of a better word, fearful of the higher-ups with administration because, ultimately, they're the ones making phone calls and recommendations for residency, which, as medical students, is kind of our end goal, right?

I think when we were making the Islamophobia podcast, that was something we had talked about. Is this going to impact the school and our reputation for getting into residency? And I think, like you said, we did the risk-benefit analysis, and we were like, "It doesn't matter because this is so important. We need to speak about it."

Bushra: It's a story that needed to be told.

Harjit: Bushra, I really like how you said that the fear is kind of placed upon us and not innately in us. I will, however, say one thing. The consequences are real, though, as in the sense that I feel like a lot of the time, when I have stopped talking, it's because I've seen so many things either happen to myself or people around me.

I think the main point for me is that there are going to be consequences sometimes. But are those consequences better to live with than not speaking up? I think that's kind of the distinction that I make.

For me, I do understand there will be consequences for things that I say, because I've seen it. I've seen women in my community who've spoken up, and they're either disowned by their family or worse. I've even seen people be killed.

These are things that you'd be like, "Oh, this just happens once in a while." But people get abused. People get broken in other ways. These are the things that you always see around you.

And the truth is, I would say even with me and my sisters our life right now is something that I don't think we could have ever imagined, but the only reason we achieved it was speaking out. But I will say there are consequences.

For example, I get really anxious sometimes, and I think that's kind of just a part of my past, things I've always had to fear and stuff. So there are things that don't leave you, but I will say that the other route is worse.

There are always consequences. Sometimes those consequences can be so positive. Sometimes they can be negative. But in the end, I have found in my life, every time I've spoken out, I've always been happier with the end result. So that is why I continue to do it.

Bushra: So just to wrap this up with a nice little red bow, I'm going to ask you guys what is advice that you would give to the younger generation or even your younger self when it comes to speaking out?

Harjit: I think what I would tell my younger self or the younger generation right now is that your ideas are important, and no one will ever know them until you speak them. So that's number one.

Number two, every person is so different that if all of us end up speaking out, I think that you would bring visibility to maybe situations, issues, both good and bad, that no one has ever seen.

And I know that it can be hard sometimes, but I hope that everyone understands that you are telling your own story and not letting someone write it for you. I think that's the biggest point, that you are the one . . . you're giving yourself the agency.

One thing that we all have is a voice. There are many forms of a voice. There's written. There's spoken.

Holding things within you can also damage your own self-esteem, self-confidence, your self-love. So I think that's the biggest reason that you should speak out, the reason I speak out.

In the end, I want to be myself and I want to live a full life, but for me to do that, I need to express myself, because keeping everything within me just destroys myself.

Margaux: I think that's a very powerful message, Harjit. Feeling less than or threatened by something or recognizing a deficit in the world around you can feel very isolating. If you don't speak about it and you keep it inside, that can be really detrimental to your own health.

And so I think I would tell my younger self or our listeners, it's so important that . . . And like Bushra was saying, you have a support system that you can talk to and bounce and voice your ideas and your feelings with first in a safe environment and then prepare yourself to go and project your voice outward.

And then secondly is that there are many resources that you can utilize. Don't be afraid to circumnavigate the person or the thing that is directly in your way and find a different way around it, whether that is going to the person who is in charge of making the whole building, or above the dean and figure out how you can make a planning committee to change something that's wrong with your class culture, whatever it may be.

And so you do not have to go at it alone. It may feel very isolating to have these feelings and like you don't have a voice, but I think you will always be able to find someone who shares your ideas if you just find that support network first and then, together, project your voice into the world.

Harjit: A lot of the time, I think when we speak up, we are always like, "We're speaking against something." But the truth is, sometimes, the other side doesn't really understand the situation. So I love that you brought that up.

Bushra: One thing that I want to kind of put out into the world is that we all come from different walks of life. I know that sounds cliché, but it's true. And in order to have representation of all those different people that come from different places who have had different things happen to them that's impacted their lives, we need to be able to hear those people.

And so what I want to say to our listeners is to dare to be visible. I think that we can effect a visible change. Especially within our generation, I feel like we see it a little bit at a time, a little bit at a time. And so that's what I kind of want y'all to walk away with in this episode.

Harjit: I love that.

Bushra: Thank you for listening, everybody. We are the "Bundle of Hers." Make sure you check us out on iTunes and Instagram, @bundleofhers. Until next time, bye-bye.

Harjit: Bye. Bye-bye. It's a Bushra bye-bye.