S3E20: Match Day 2020

Margaux: Oh, my gosh. You've matched, Utah. Yay.

Harjit: My sister said congratulations.

Margaux: I'm so excited.

Harjit: Okay. Wait, wait, wait.

Margaux: Hey, everyone. Welcome to "Bundle of Hers." Margaux here remotely with Leen, Harjit, and Bushra. Still the COVID pandemic. So we're trying this remote thing.

Harjit: Hello. Hello.

Bushra: Why are you being so weird?

Harjit: I'm kind of going crazy staying at home.

Margaux: I think it's been one week and a day since they pulled us from clinical duties, and that happened on the Friday before Match Day, so one week before Match Day. And for those of our listeners who don't know what Match Day is, as you've been listening, we've been interviewing for residency positions over this past year and Match Day is the day where we find out where we are placed and get to go to residency. And it's an algorithm. So we, as applicants, ranked our choices, and then the programs also rank us, and then this magical algorithm on the computer does magic and wizardry and matches people.

And you may have seen on social media, but we just want to share where we all matched because we're super excited. So I matched at the University of Utah into Triple Board, which is a joint program between pediatrics, adult psychiatry, and child and adolescent psychiatry. It was my number one, and I'm so, so excited, although it was so hard to choose between the Triple Board programs. There's not many of them, but I'm very happy that I'm in Utah. Who's next? Harjit, because she's going to be my co-resident.

Harjit: Yes. We are going to be best friends forever. So I matched at the University of Utah, General Psychiatry program. I'm really, really excited because this is the institution where, like, my first dreams of becoming a psychiatry kind of came alive. And it is an awesome program, has a bunch of resources, the education there is amazing. So I'm super excited to continue to not only be a part of the same institution, but also serve my communities that I grew up with, which I think I'm very, very, very excited for and I think is the main reason God has put me to match at Utah is because I think that this is my purpose in life is serving my communities. So that's that. Bushra, what about you?

Bushra: I matched into Emergency Medicine at Duke University. That was my number one choice from day one basically. I did my away rotation there and I had an incredible experience and I just never felt so, like, supported by a program just as a medical student. So going back for my interview is almost like a homecoming of sorts. And I remember walking away from that interview and just being so content with the fact that, like, "This is my number one. I hope that they feel the same way about me as I feel about them." And Alhamdulillah, all worked out for the best. Alhamdulillah means praise God, by the way. And I'm excited to be a part of the Duke family. Leen, do you want to share where you're going to go?

Leen: I also matched into Emergency Medicine at Rutgers in Newark, New Jersey, going up to the big cities up in the northeast. So it's going to be a crazy change, but it's going to be awesome. I'm excited. Along the lines of excitement, we had Match Day last Friday, and it was definitely not your typical Match Day. It was like the perfect dystopian Match Day where, you know, COVID-19 and earthquakes and all the fun stuff. We ended up celebrating at home through FaceTiming with our friends and family and then just, you know, mass texts to everybody. It was a very unique Match Day, like never in the history of medical school is anybody going to be like the Match Day of 2020. You know what I mean? It's exactly how I wanted it.

Margaux: What do you mean by that, Leen?

Leen: I honestly did not want to invite anybody to Match Day. I just want to open the envelope by myself. I know I'm kind of a weird pessimist. Ironically, it all came together that way. I don't know. I think there's a lot of stress as well as like a lot of . . . What's the word when you . . .

Margaux: Anticipation?

Leen: A lot of stress and the anticipation and people making it a celebration and people making anxiety. And for me who I really didn't know what Match Day was until I got to med school and even then, even fourth year I started learning more about it. I didn't really understand the whole tradition behind it. I was like, "You know what? I'm just going to just be mellow about it, and I'm just going to not invite anybody and I'm just going to open this letter and find out where I go and then I will tell people."

I got a lot of pushback for this, I think throughout the year, and I started to understand kind of why I was getting pushback from people. I started to understand how much of a tradition it was, how much it's a time for families to get together with other families, and they get to see where all your classmates go, and they get to meet all the doctors you work with and meet all your friends. And so I can understand from that aspect.

But for me, I guess graduation was always the thing to look forward to. Graduation is when you finally get your degree and, you know, it's like now I've done it. And I think it's just a cultural thing because we don't have match in any other specialty, right?

Harjit: I think a lot of the pushback that Leen was getting was from me because I was always telling her, like, "Why don't you want to celebrate Match Day with us?" And I understand her emotions too, but for me, I think graduation was really important because I get the degree of a doctor. But one reason I feel like Match Day is so important is you kind of get that financial security and that feeling of independence that I have a job, that I, at this point in my life, can do things on my own. I think growing up I always was afraid that I'd be dependent on somebody and if that person left me, then I would have nothing and I could do nothing. So having a residency spot meant I would have an income. And I think there's a lot of sentiment I tie with having financial security. So, you know, I had a couple of conversations with Leen and I would say to Leen, like, "This is why I want to celebrate Match Day because, yes, becoming a doctor is important, but this is just one more step closer to us being independent women."

Bushra: So, for me, Match Day was super important too. I kind of had similar feelings to Harjit, and I was also a part of the pushback with Leen and her not wanting to come on Match Day because I think Match Day for me it was a little bit more important than graduation because the thing is I knew I was going to graduate. There is absolutely no doubt that I'm going to graduate. I didn't know whether I was going to match or not. And I think that every med student has a doubt within their mind. You could be like the most stellar applicant ever. You're always going to have a little bit of doubt. I think it's just the nature of the field that we're going into.

And you know what? Yeah, we've said this once and we'll say it over and over again. Imposter syndrome is so real. And so it's hard to not feel that doubt. And so we have Match Monday. And on Match Monday you find out whether you matched or not. And then that following Friday is when you find out where you matched.

And Match Friday is a huge ball of maybe, like, anticipation and wondering where you're going to spend the next three to seven years of your training. And a lot of people have family members that come in from out of town, friends and family and mentors that come in to see you open that letter. It's almost like a sacred moment that you get to share with the people that you love and who have supported you. Like, my mom was going to fly out here and she had to cancel her flight. So she didn't get to see me, like, open up that letter and see my reaction to where I was going to go. I didn't get to see one of my mentors who was going to come too.

And it's like tradition too. Like, it's been done every single year prior to this year. And the fact that we didn't get that I almost felt a little robbed when they announced that we weren't going to have that. And I understand the circumstances, you know, the precautions that we're taking and why we didn't have it, but it's still stung a little bit for sure.

Margaux: No, I agree, Bushra. Definitely stung, but going back to what Leen said, I feel like of Harjit and Bushra I understood Leen's viewpoint too because as an introvert, these big decision . . . I'm not like a very big reactionary person, I guess, and so for me, it's not about, like, opening a letter and putting on a show. I almost would rather do it in private and then like share the moment. However, like you guys both said, the moment to share with your family and your friends was also really a beautiful thing for me.

So I understood on one level I was with Leen, like I'm happy in a way. I was like it didn't bother me so much that we had to do at home remotely, but on the other side, I also felt like we didn't get to have this very almost rite of passage celebratory day.

But one of the residents that we work with, shout out to Jackson, a couple of days . . . I guess it was the week before Match Day, he saw me in the hall and he's like, "I just want you to know about Match Day. It's totally okay to go outside and open your letter alone and then come back in and celebrate with your friends," because, like Bushra said, you never know that even if you feel really confident about your spot. It's an algorithm and, like, it's up to the computer at the end of the day. You don't know what your future could be, and so you might not be 100% thrilled even though you're thrilled to have a job like Harjit was talking about. That location, if it's your fifth or sixth or seventh position that you ranked, it might not be the happiest moment for you.

And I think that's hard when people around you are celebrating and happy. And I think it is just a lot of complex emotions that could happen when you're in the room with everybody versus like privately opening it. You can have those private moments to yourself to sort through and feel all the feels and then go and talk to people.

So that's kind of how we all did it. We opened our emails at home, but we were all on FaceTime with each other. And then I was on FaceTime with my mom and dad and sister and Harjit was also on FaceTime with her parents, so we had a lot of FaceTiming going on, which I think it was still fun and special in that regard. We got to see each other. We opened it one at a time and see each other's reactions.

Bushra: I think that we have the aid of, you know, modern technology that we can FaceTime with each other and see each other and have the ability to communicate with our families too. Like, that was the benefit of it. And I'm really glad that we still decided to open it together. I'm also really glad that we decided to open it one by one because I wanted to see you guys, like, read where you're going to end up and just like . . . I don't know. I just felt, like, it connected us in a way, I guess.

Harjit: I think I definitely felt that as well. I loved seeing your reaction, Bushra, and your reaction, Margaux. I even recorded videos. And I think that's something that we can keep as a memory forever. I was . . . My two best friends from junior high were going to come into town but they had to cancel. So, in that sense, I was a little bit sad and also my sisters weren't there, but I got to FaceTime my sisters and I FaceTimed you all and I was like, "I'm dressing up," because I always am reminded that life is very unpredictable and you can see that during the course of time that we're in, right? And you kind of just have to take those moments and kind of be present and in the now.

And I think I was sad a couple of days before when we found out that Match Day wasn't going to happen, but in the moment, I was very grateful that I even reached this far. I guess for me, a lot of it is like you didn't even know it was a possibility. I don't know. I was very full of gratitude, like, "Oh, shit. I got here."

And I totally understand the complex feelings, though, Margaux. I think there's a lot of flaws in the system, you know, like we've always been discussing. So I understand that there's a complexity and that's why I also get your point of view and Leen's point of view as well.

Margaux: Yeah. So, Leen, would you like to share how you chose to celebrate because Bushra and Harjit and I did FaceTime, but we know you did something different. And that was the right choice for you.

Leen: Yeah. I was in my room and I opened it and I was actually very shocked to see that it wasn't my number one. It was my number two school. It was this weird mix of shock, like, "Oh, I didn't get the number one school that I really saw myself at for the last few months," versus, "But I also really love this school as well." And it was just kind of this weird balance in the moment. And I'm kind of glad it wasn't on camera because it might have been just really confusing for you guys going between this, like, debating in my head. Yeah.

And then I just called my mom and I told her. My mom was very happy, but then, like, she heard me that I wasn't as happy and so she was like, "Why are you even mad? You matched. That's the important part. A recession is coming. You have a job." But it was just very surprising to me because my number one school I had so many friends and so many people that I wanted to reconnect with. I kind of went back and forth through this thing.

But I always hear this from a lot of residents saying, "You'll end up where you're supposed to be," and I just kept saying like, "Okay. I'm supposed to be where I want to be and that was my number one." Right? But when I saw as my number two, I remember thinking back like during my interview trail, how well I got along with the residents and how much, like, they understood my crazy humor that sometimes people don't really understand.

And actually, funny story, my mom two days earlier, she's like, "I dreamt that you went to your second choice." I honestly think it was a very valuable experience to, like, see what it was like to get your second choice and not your first choice. It's taking some time to get used to the idea of going to my number two. It's definitely not a bad feeling. If anything, it's just sad that I am not going to see those people on my number one choice.

Margaux: Jackson also told me this other piece of advice. So, again, thanks to Jackson for all his wisdom. But he said, "Even if you get your first choice, you may have mixed feelings because of the missed opportunities from the other schools." And I think there were multiple places that we could probably all see ourselves at, and there was a lot of thought that goes into making the rank list. And I think there's a lot of programs that I really liked. And it has to come down to just one and you wish you could combine, you know, take the best from each and create your own program.

Then Harjit was also saying something. Maybe you want to say it because it's what your sister said, but you want to go to a program that wants you, and usually, if you get matched there, on some level, that means they wanted you. I don't know if that is the sentiment across everybody, but I think that's important to know.

Leen: I think, ultimately, when I think back to, just for a point of reference, I matched at Rutgers in Newark, New Jersey, and I remember interviewing there, I was just mind blown at the amount of diversity and how much they incorporated that into their administration and into their residents and then into their practice. And then even on top of that, they live in a place that, you know, there's so many socioeconomic disparities. I realized being trained there is going to help me become the best physician I can wherever I go, so that I can be able to provide medicine despite all these hard setbacks of the system. I think it's going to train me to be that awesome physician. In retrospect, I think I'm a lot more happier. It is far away.

Margaux: I think you're going to be great, Leen. It's really exciting. In any other time that's not a pandemic, is usually a very exciting time for most medical students because now you know where you're going and if that's a way, unlike myself, it's a time to be looking for a place to live and to go visit your new home and just sort of this, like, exciting transition time. However, for us, that's not the case because with coronavirus pandemic we're all essentially locked down. We can't travel freely and the economy is very tenuous right now, and so it's hard to look for housing. And who knows what's even going to happen in the next month?

So there's so much uncertainty as to whether we're even going to be starting residency on time or graduating on time or if we're going to be thrown into residency in our own hospitals working in the ICU. It's just very, very different than I think most medical students experience Match Day and the end of fourth year. And that's just a big change in and of itself and now add the pandemic in. How are you guys all handling this big change? I know I'm very lucky because I'm staying here in Utah, so that takes a big weight off my shoulders to not have to find a house, but for you, Leen and Bushra, how are you navigating this time?

Leen: I'm not.

Bushra: Honestly, I've been avoidant. Basically, after I came off of the high of matching where I wanted to match, I realized, "Oh, shit. You got to move." And with everything going on, like, I'm not able to travel right now. I'm actually at Duke, which is in North Carolina across the country. Right now it's a big fat question mark as to where I'm going to live and . . . I mean, it's hard to try to plan when there's a lot of questions that need to be answered. And it's a difficult place to be in. For me, and I'll speak freely in too, it's going to be the first time we live outside of Utah, so it's, like, on top of that, we also have to deal with this outbreak and, you know, moving to a new city and all that stuff, making new friends, all the things, but I'm sure we'll take it in stride.

Leen: I really, really, really want to have my own apartment for residency. I'm, like, made that as a goal for myself. I'm going to freaking budget it into whatever money they give me. I am going to have it. So, I know, right? Bushra is dancing on the FaceTime. So I don't know. I have no idea. I told my dad I'm taking a U-Haul. He's like, "You're not taking a U-Haul cross country to go to New Jersey." I was like, "Yes, I am. And I'm taking everything with me. I don't care what you say. I need my feelings of Utah with me over there."

Another big thing I was worried about is, "Am I going to find a support system there?" Like, you're moving to a whole new area, right? And through my life [inaudible 00:18:38] in happiness.

Harjit: You're an extrovert. You can do it.

Leen: I am not an extrovert. I know Harjit loves to say that. I am not an extrovert, but I think I get along with people very well. I like to listen to people. So I think that's how I come off as an extrovert, but it's scary, but I think we're going to do it.

Margaux: Even though I'm not moving. It's just like the prospect of starting with a whole new cohort of people that aren't you guys, right? That's scary for me. Not scary, but just like something that I'm thinking about. And as an introvert, it's very hard for me to put myself out there and . . .

Harjit: I think a lot of it is especially like me and Margaux because we're staying here, I think it's going to be like a big change from transitioning to be a medical student into now being a resident in training. I think it's going to be a huge shift for us. I remember talking to a physician while I was kind of picking my ranking. And one thing that they said that really stuck out to me is that, when you stay in an institution and transition from, say, med student to intern, it takes a little bit of extra time for people to see you differently. So I wonder if I'm going to have that struggle or not.

I think the good thing is I discovered psychiatry really late, so I don't actually know everybody at the department that I will be at. It will be nice to see familiar faces, but I'm hoping because I wasn't so much in everyone's face all the time that it will still feel like I'm coming in and also looking forward to staying stuck with you. You guys know I ain't leaving you. I'm a little quiet today because this whole thing is a mess, but I'm excited to continue our friendship, you know, past med school.

Bushra: That's something that makes me sad a little bit is that, like, I'm going to have to leave everyone, you guys. Utah has been my home my whole entire life, my family, my friends, my classmates, my mentors, everybody is here and to kind of, you know, walk away from that is going to be difficult for sure. But I think it's time for me to continue to grow as a person. So I'm trying to be optimistic, which is hard during these times and kind of put myself in a good headspace. I kind of want to move into a space where I look at things in a more positive light.

Margaux: And Bushra, if this pandemic has taught us anything is that we can still stay connected through FaceTime because we've been FaceTiming a lot. And even though it's not the same as hanging out in person, I feel like I still get to see you guys and talk to you, and so maybe that's a nice indication of how we can stay connected even when we're in different cities.

So I think that we, at least I, and I feel like all of you have extreme gratitude. Match Day matching and this whole process went very well for me. I feel very fortunate and so grateful to have matched where I did. But I wanted to recognize and acknowledge that it doesn't happen this way for everybody. And there are people who on Monday didn't find out that they matched and had to go through the scoping process, which is basically like mini-matches and you can look it up if you're interested in learning more. But that's a very stressful thing to know that you didn't match and to have to sort of scramble to try to find another match position.

And then some people chose to take a year after they didn't match to ramp up their application. And just because you have to do that or if you didn't match in your number one, two or three, it doesn't mean you're not successful. And it's hard and I acknowledge all the feelings that are going around right now. And all the sentiments that are predominantly on social media are of joy and happiness of people, matching to their top choices. And that can feel really hard. And so I just want to acknowledge and put it out there that this time is not easy for everybody. And for our classmates who that situation is, we love you and you guys are just as badass as everybody else and you've worked so hard and this is no reflection on you at all.

Leen: And it's no reflection on their capabilities of being an amazing physician and being able to give the best care to their patients. I think that's something is very important to reiterate is just because you did not match does not mean you're going to be a bad doctor or you are a bad doctor, you're a bad student or you're a bad med. Honestly, from, like, hearing stories of people who didn't matched, I was shocked. I was like, "They are by far way better applicant than I will ever be. And they are way smarter than I will ever be." And they get medicine. This process is so strange. It's so strange and sometimes it's so infuriating when things like that happen because it's like, "Oh, they'd be amazing physicians. Why is this happening?"

Harjit: I think that there's a lot of flaws in the system that we should recognize. No system is built perfectly. Our culture, I think, very much promotes success is tied to, you know, us matching or our success is tied to a paper or email recognizing that we deserve a position, but that's not a fact.

Leen: Or traditional means of success.

Harjit: Exactly. It makes me very sad too because, yes, I was happy this week, but there's a lot of people close to me that didn't match. That really amplifies the flaws in the system that there are way more applicants than positions open. Even though we have a shortage of doctors, there's always this focus that we have a shortage of doctors, but then there's not enough training sites for all the applicants that want to apply. And we've discussed how there's a lot of flaws with even the application process and the residents in the interview process, right?

There's a lot of things that go on kind of behind the scenes, like, you just don't apply. Sometimes you have to send emails, sometimes you have to, you know, reach out to people. There's a lot of things that go into getting a residency spot, which, you know, a lot of us thought it'd be super simple, but it is not. And this is why we need mentors that have struggled and this is why we need people that have been through it so they can tell us the truth and they can tell us the right experiences because no one talks about it.

I hope that through this process, people realize that their worth isn't tied to them matching or not, and that it is just us trying to make do with a system that already exists. I am super, super grateful that I've matched, and I hope that in some way that I can leave a dent in this big system of medicine by changing something. And I know that the four of us kind of hold that same sentiment and that's why we became friends in the first place. So, yeah.

Leen: And this is purely my experience and my interpretation, but this is a huge reason why I did not want to participate in a huge celebratory Match Day. For me, like, I'm the kind of person where if I see a system that's flawed, then I will not give it anything. That's just who I am as a person. And so that's a huge part of why I did not want to celebrate Match Day in the traditional sense with, like, the whole party. It just didn't make sense to me to be in a room with people, you know, who are going to be happy about matching at one place and not happy matching in another place and then people who did not match at all when we are all extraordinary human beings and extraordinary medical students. Why boost the flawed system? Why give it credit? But that is purely on my interpretation.

Bushra: Just reflecting back on this journey of med school. God, I hate the word journey. But this process of med school is that inherently a lot of the benchmarks are based off of fear, the fear that you have to meet these arbitrary marks, otherwise, you know, you're going to be placed in limbo, you're not going to be a good doctor, you're not going to match anywhere.

And that's the thing that I think hinders a lot of people from pursuing medicine, which really sucks because I feel like there are a lot of people that I personally know who I think would make phenomenal physicians that don't even have the inkling or the idea that they could even do it. I feel like anybody could do it. I think that a lot of the times the system is built against you, but there are people like the "Bundle Of Hers" who are, you know, trying to fight against what the traditional litmus tests are for getting into med school, and we do things like, you know, being a part of the admissions committee for our medical school and advocating for the people who we think would make a great asset to our program. And I think we're all going to continue to do that at the various institutions that we go to. I just want to say like if medicine is your dream, don't give up on it because other people tell you you can't because you can.

Harjit: And Bushra, I also agree. I think that's one reason that we are ending this podcast on that note, is also recognizing all those people that have put in that effort. One thing that I think we mentioned in the beginning of the episode is that one reason why we celebrate the match is to really think our family and our friends and the mentors that have put so much effort into our success. So I know that we couldn't say it in person, but I hope through this podcast, we can kind of put out there and thank everyone who's kind of been a part of our journey. And I think that's something that I want to recognize.

Margaux: Beautifully said by all of you. I extend all the sentiments. And if you have your own Match Day story because Match Day was different for all of us everywhere in the world this year, we'd love to hear it at Bundle Of Hers on Instagram or at "Bundle Of Hers" podcast on Facebook. Please share your stories with us. And until next time . . .

Bushra: Bye-bye. It doesn't sound as good coming from a remote location, does it, Chloe?