S3E24: Harjit - Confidence from Community

Siale: Wow.

Harjit: You can listen.

Chloe: Not too short, too low?

Harjit: Hopefully, it's not too low.

Chloe: Not too low?

Harjit: Can you hear yourself?

Siale: Yeah. Weird.

Harjit: No, you sound great. Okay. This is good. I'm ready. Sorry. I do like warm up exercises. Hi, everyone. It's Bundle Of Hers. And this is Harjit. And this is my Identity episode and I thought it would be wonderful to have a guest that I just met a couple months ago. And I'll have her introduce herself.

Siale: Hi, everyone. My name's Siale Teaupa. I'm a first year at the U. And I met Harjit just, I don't know, here at school, so.

Harjit: I saw a post that you had put up on your Instagram that was shared at the school's page and in it you talked a lot about where you come from and your journey to get here. And I really connected with what you had said and I was like, "I want to be her friend." I always tell Bushra, and Leen, and like Margaux, I'm like, "I want to be this person's friend just because they seem so cool. Like, I want them in my life." And so I remember talking about you with them, and then I had requested you on Instagram, and that's kind of how we got in touch.

Siale: Yeah. I remember feeling like, "Oh, it was so neat. She reached out to me." I'd shared this post. Then after that first week of med school, like prior to The White Coat Ceremony, I was feeling a bit insecure and kind of weird. There's not very many women of color in my class. And so I felt, I don't know, not like alone, but like asking that question like, "Oh, do I belong here? Are there other people here that look at me?" So then after you commented on my post, then I Instagram stalked you and Instagram stalked the Bundles, I was like, "There are people here who look like me, and they have similar feelings to what I'm feeling, and we share a lot of the same experiences and thoughts on a lot of these things." So I remember feeling just like really grateful for you guys.

Harjit: It was really that connection that prompted me to want you on this particular episode with me. I think that a lot of the career paths or the passions that we choose in life, if there's something of our choice, they really align with the way we grew up, the way we see our world, and really focus on our identities, right? How our identities really shaped our presence in medicine. And was it because of our identities that we even came here in the first place? Because I always wonder that question as well. Like, why did I choose this career path of medicine other than my love for science? Because it's science plus a whole other humanistic aspect, right? Medicine, it's just not science. I think I'll start out with asking you before I share my story of how you have shaped your identities over the years.

Siale: Yeah. So I identify as a Tongan, Latina, Native American female. That's evolved. I grew up . . . I'm from Utah County, so I'm also like part Caucasian. And so, growing up in Utah County, I often would try to mask the brown side of me because I wanted to be like all my other classmates. I did competitive dance for years, and all of them were white. And so I wanted to look like them. I wanted to act like them. And I was not ashamed, but maybe embarrassed of my brownness, just because I felt like I was so different and different isn't always welcome. And so that was something that was really hard, but as I got older, and then I got to my undergrad, I did my undergrad at BYU, and I started to surround myself with more Polynesians and Pacific Islanders. I'll often reference like my Pacific Islander side, but the Pacific Islander community is very similar to the Latinx community, so like draw parallels between both of them.

But as I was there, I realized it's okay to be different. It's actually a really good thing to be different because we need different in this world. Growing up in a Pacific Islander Latinx community, I remember just thinking some of the things we did. I remember this trip when we went to Tonga with my dad. I remember my cousins asked, they said, "Oh, I really like your shoes." And then I looked at my dad and my mom and then my dad said, "Give them to her." And my dad made me take them off and give it to her. And then later, like a jacket, the same thing happened. And my dad would always make me give these things to my cousins or whatever. And I . . .

Harjit: Oh my God, I totally relate to that. My Game Boy, when I was 10, I had to give to my cousin in India when I went to go visit him. So I know.

Siale: It hurts.

Harjit: Yeah, it does.

Siale: When you're little, yeah. And you don't understand those things when you were kids. I remember crying. I was like, "I don't want to give her my shoes." Or just being a brat kind of. But it's those little experiences like that growing up that made me realize, things don't matter, people matter. The Tongan community, it's very a "we" community. There's this proverb, it's like "Takanga 'etau fohe" or something and it's about working collectively together. And everything they do in the Tongan community, it's all for the greater good, which some people are like, "That's communism." But it's not. It's always like you always do what's best for the community. When they have a good harvest, they share it with the entire village and stuff. And so that mindset has really shaped who I am and some of the reasons that I've considered medicine.

I think there's a lot of ways to make money. If you want to go into medicine for money, that's not really that good of a reason. You need something a lot deeper. Like, you said, there's a humanistic side, there's a scientific side. Even though I'm only a first year and people are like, "You're so optimistic." But I've listened to some of my classmates and talk about insurance and the way that it shapes the way we practice medicine. But for me, it's always about the patient. It's always about what's best about the patient. And I think that stems back from those little things. It's because people matter more than things. People matter more than money. And a lot of that comes from growing up in Pacific Islander Latinx community, where you don't have a lot of things and you don't have a lot of money, you don't drive fancy cars. But we spend our money on each other and we do what's best for each other.

And so identities evolved as I've started to figure out who I am, that's really shaped why I've decided to pursue this career in medicine. And there's not a lot of people who look like me. And so I know there's a need for someone like me to help the people that I love.

Harjit: When you say that, I'm reminded a lot about my identities and how they've really shaped my career path in medicine. So I identify as Sikh, Punjabi American woman. Right. For me, those identities have been complicated, and have taken time to evolve, and be shaped to what they are today. So I specifically say I identify as Punjabi. Although I was born in India. Just a historical fact, Punjab was split into Pakistan and India after the European settlers had left India and that nation was formed. For me, I have a deeper connection with Punjabis than I have Indians because our culture is very similar. I also feel like we had to go through this historical trauma of being split in half and being split apart. So, me, identifying as Punjabi really helps me reclaim that we were together and we will always stay together.

I also feel like in our communities, education is viewed a little bit different than the rest of the Indian communities. And that's been a really big push for me to like want to further my education. I also share a similar viewpoint as you, Siale. From my Punjabi community, I've learned the power togetherness has and how if you pool resources and have that sharing of resources, everyone can be and live much happier and healthier life.

One thing that the American identity has taught me is the power of having choices for myself too. So I always say that, like I try to take the good values from each community that I'm a part of and try to shape who I am. I feel like growing up here, I've learned that my voice is important, and that my choices are also important, and there's a way you can be selfish and selfless at the same time. I think that's something that I learned growing up here.

But I think the biggest thing that shaped my identity and community is growing up as a brown American. So what I'm saying is like having these two identities with me. Being both Punjabi and being both American and how that really shaped the way I viewed the world, to me, that meant a lot of changing my perspectives and different scenarios, you know. I don't know if you've ever had that feeling, but you're like, "Here I'm thinking as an American person or here I'm thinking as a Punjabi person." Right?

Siale: Yeah.

Harjit: And I've had that shift of view often and I think that really has been a driving force of why I even chose medicine in the first place because I like how we have to think about all the perspectives. Although you know that a lot of people do not. And I think I also went through this growth of healing for myself, being okay with being both identities. Because when you're younger, just like you, I also was like, "I want to hide my brownness, right. Like I want to blend in, make it much simpler and easier on myself." But I think it was me accepting that I was both that really helped me heal as a person. It's that growth that I saw in myself that I really am excited to see my patients. And it might not be based on two identities, but in a way it's like that process of healing is recognizing what's going on, working on it, and then moving forward. You know what I mean? So it's that whole process that I learned through both of my identities.

My other drive for medicine I think is a lot of advocacy work. I think it's really important to be a lifelong learner and empower others. And I think that really drives from my religious identity. So I identify as Sikh, and we believe our very first word in our book is . . . it says "Ik Onkar" that "there's One God" and that God doesn't have no shape or form. It's everywhere and in everyone and in everything. Again, that whole collectivism is where I draw my inspiration from there. Like I was saying, my advocacy work, a lot of it drives from that religious identity because I have always learned and been taught that if someone is facing injustice, you are also facing injustice because we're all collective person. Right. And I think that was like a really big driving force for me in medicine.

Siale: That's something that's actually probably new to being in med school is like speaking up more and raising awareness. I think I didn't really develop that confidence in myself. I always felt like I'm just this random Tongan, Latina girl. But it's really important to me. Like, you said, I feel like now that I've gotten to a place where I feel like I can empower other people of color to do similar things, that's really important to me. I feel like I'm the product of my community. Like you said, I grew up different family members taking care of me and even my ancestors that came here from the islands and my dad, he's an immigrant himself. It's important for me to give back to those communities and be an advocate for them, especially for those who don't feel like they can be advocates for themselves. Because sometimes I feel like, I don't know if this is specific to the Pacific Islander community, but as an immigrant you're taught like you get here, you put your head down, and you work, and you do things even when you experience injustice. But like you said, when I see someone, a Tongan girl, a Latina woman, experience some injustice, it hurts me because they are a part of my community. We are one.

And so it's important, like we can't change the system. The system's really broken, but we can start on an individual level by empowering each other and by raising awareness. There will never be change and the system's not going to change on its own. But if you can start by making people aware and making people think about things, like that alone is going to propel enough change for me to hope and believe that one day there will be, I don't know, where we feel equal.

Harjit: Yeah. And also I think that it's very important that when I have that mindset of oneness, it also puts me with people that I'm angry at. Like, "I don't like your views or the way you're saying something." But I always remind myself that these are my people too. We are a collective. Our world can only be better if we all do better. We need to do this for everyone. I need to do it not only for my own identities, it is for everybody. Right. And I think a lot of times, people don't have that mindset. But I also always wonder, our racial identities become the forefront of our identities in this professional medical school world, right. At home, my gendered identity is the predominant identity that plays out. Do you have this, is there some spaces where one identity is predominant?

Siale: Yeah. There's a lot of advocacy groups for women at the school. And I think they're really great, and I'm a part of that, and I always advocate for women. But when I'm at the school, I feel like I'm always advocating and pushing for people of color because that's the smaller minority and I feel like that's who needs to be advocated for more. But when I'm at home, the Pacific Islander community, it's like a very male-dominated society. And so sometimes when I feel like I'm in a family setting or even with my husband's family, my husband is also Tongan, they'll be like, "No, Siale, don't do that. Let Ofa do it." And I'm like, "No, I can do it. Just because I'm a girl doesn't mean I can't do these things for myself." And so I feel like I'm always pushing, and dads often don't want to let their daughters go off to college. It's a really scary thing for them. They want their daughters to stay close to them. Don't go far away. Let us watch you.

And so I feel like I'm always been the pushback. I'm grateful my dad, even though he grew up in Tonga, he's not very traditional. My dad's always been really empowering for women. He's always told me like since I was young like, "You're going to be a doctor and you can do it." And so I'm really grateful for my dad that he's adopted some of the things in the American culture in that way. But that's what is hard. When I am in a Pacific Islander environment, sometimes I feel like my voice is less heard as a female when I speak. There'll be family meetings and it's like the males of the family are supposed to speak, not the females. And that can really bother me. And my husband sees that, but it's always like I want to be respectful of how we're running this event and to my culture, but also I don't want to feel like I'm belittled because of my gender.

And so I see myself stirring the pot both at school for people of color and in my family for women. But I just feel like your voice will never be heard if you don't speak up. Things will never change if you don't push for change. Like the way that our culture and society work in these different systems. So what I focus on is different depending on the environment that I'm in, but I feel like whatever's the minority or whatever's being really oppressed in that setting, I feel like that's always what I had to speak up about.

Harjit: My experiences are very parallel with that too. I've talked numerous times on this podcast that my gender identity is the predominant one at home. Right. We also come from a very patriarchal society. Not to say that American culture is not like that either, because it is.

Siale: It is. Yeah.

Harjit: It is, right? But the thing is, I think the Punjabi culture is a little bit more out about it, whereas the American society, it's interwoven into everything and you don't really see it, but it exists. I remember when I was younger, I'd always be like, "Oh, I hate that I'm born as a Punjabi." Like, this is how much, like I really despised my identity. It's not fair. Girls can go to school. When you're young, you're like, "We just have to get married and have kids, but what if I don't want to do all those things?" I was very upset. And I think it furthered me from my culture.

It wasn't until I was much older, I realized these ideologies exists worldwide. But my gender identity was the focal point at home. Like, I'm always speaking up as a woman, right? Just like you had just explained. And I think that struggle was very hard and exhausting, but it also helped me develop a lot of resilience. Right. And that's another reason why this path of medicine, I was always like, "I want to do it. I know it's hard, but I think I can do it." Because if I can go against my culture and go into a field that is male-dominated, I can make it in med school.

And then when I was at school, it was all about my race, me being a brown person. I don't think I recognized it that much when I was in West Valley and going to junior high and high school there because it's predominantly brown. It wasn't until I got to college and I realized that I'm not always going to be surrounded by these people that have made me feel at home because we've had these similar identities that I really have to be vocal about who I was. It gets really exhausting sometimes. Right. We're always like on the forefront, ready to speak, ready to talk. Then there's always those points, I wish I was X, I wish I was Y. I wish I was Z. And honestly, I still say that to this day.

Siale: Yeah. Because it's exhausting, you get so tired. I've had a few incidences lately, where it's like I'm stirring over thinking about this thing that's really bothering me. I hate that this is impacting me so much, and I wish that I was this other thing so that it wouldn't affect me so deeply. And then I could just walk away from it. And I wish I could just focus on school or even just to have the choice to not worry about some of these things. I get tired of explaining to people and telling people over and over again why I'm upset about this thing or why what they said was inappropriate. And that can be really exhausting. But then at the end of the day, I can't imagine not saying anything. I couldn't live with myself. It's funny, a lot of classmates talk about community like us and them. They talk about the community as if they're not a part of it. But when I think of myself, I'm like, "I am the community."

Harjit: The community. Yeah. No, I totally get that, Siale. I totally get that because sometimes even me, I'll see patients from . . . I'll literally hear the name West Valley and I'll see a patient from there, and I'm like, "Oh, they're part of me . . . like me."

Siale: Me. Yeah.

Harjit: It's not even like, "Oh, this is a patient dude from West Valley."

Siale: It's not some random person.

Harjit: Sometimes it's hard because you are viewing the world a certain way and then you're also taught to view the world a certain way. And trying to get that to come together is super difficult.

Siale: Trying to fit into the world, but you also don't like the way the world works. It's this really challenging thing of, how can I be successful within this world, in this system, but also still being true to who I am, and to my cultural identity, and to the values that make me me? It's hard, and it's disappointing, and it's a lot of work. But I think something you said earlier too is, it's the effort of everyone. It's not like we can just change it and sometimes I know it's out of ignorance, but it is exhausting. But I feel like it's really important to fight for our community, like you said.

Harjit: And this is one of the biggest reasons why I promote higher education. Being educated isn't synonymous with, "Oh, you're smart." Right? Because there's a lot of people who can't afford education, but they do brilliant things in the world. But I feel like going to college really helped me understand, who am I? Why do I care about these things? Why does how I grew up impact the decisions I make today? Because I think that when we're able to share our stories and our voices, people are able to understand where we're coming from. And in a way, that's bringing awareness just by the mere fact that we're speaking about who we are. Right. And that's the biggest premise, I think, of Bundle Of Hers as well. We really wanted to push stories so people could understand others better.

Siale: Yeah. Embracing who you are as an individual, that's empowering. Whether you're brown or you're white, that's a really empowering thing. When you can come to terms with who you are and what you represent, that gives you a lot of purpose and direction.

Harjit: And it keeps that fire going, even though it's always about to die in medical school.

Siale: [inaudible 00:20:02], it's there.

Harjit: Yeah. It's there. We try to fuel it here and there by having these types of conversations. But it's rough, man.

Siale: [inaudible 00:20:09].

Harjit: It's rough, but I'm here. You're going to get there. We're all going to get through this together.

Siale: You reached out to me as a first year, and I've noticed you go out of your way to find people that look like you or who are experiencing similar things as you. And why do you do that? It's an exhausting thing. So why do you like continue to keep doing that?

Harjit: I'm very intentional when I do that. In the beginning, I was afraid to say that publicly because I'm seeking out all the brown people, right? But now I'm really proud of that fact. I think the reason I do it is because it's exhausting and it's maybe a selfish reason, but I need people with me who can support me in that. I think a lot of people don't realize that, day in and day out, I'm challenged all the time. So it's important for me to have the other side, where you get that support. Not to say, when I hang out with Leen and Bushra, we challenge each other day in and day out. And Margaux, we're always questioning each other. But I think that exhaustion or that frustration sometimes that happens when you are a person of color, it just feels like home when you can talk about that with other people that are like you because you don't have to explain the context of things.

Siale: Yeah. You don't have to explain like why that was so offensive.

Harjit: Exactly. Exactly. And I think for me, you just want people to know that I see you and I hear you and I love you. Medicine or going to school is more than just going to school, but it's also a place where we can build relationships, like our everyday life. How boring would everyday life be if I just went to school to learn, right? We're here to develop like connection. Like every day is me developing connections with humans in this world. And that's what I feel like it means to be human. I feel like they need me and I need them.

Another reason I do it is because I feel like a lot of brown people are scared to be vocal about that. And they won't go out of their way to hang out with other people that are like them because they don't want the people in the majority to be like, "Oh, can you believe they're all hanging out together?" We're even afraid to make the majority uncomfortable. So that's the reason why I do it because I feel like everyone wants to hang out together, but they're just afraid to take that step. So why don't I just take that step?

Siale: Well, you're like it's selfish reasons, but it's not selfish because everyone needs like a support system.

Harjit: That's why I love talking to my classmates. It doesn't matter if they're brown, white, you know? It doesn't matter. I love talking to everyone because it's my way of strengthening my connections with others to have a more fulfilling life, but also to apply that to my patients in the future.

Siale: That's why I always try to push to have these conversations because it's not like I'm doing this because I think they're racist or anything like that. It's so that it can prevent or that they're prepared in the future when they are faced with it. I hope that when I graduate and when I leave here, that I can trust every single one of my patients, like that I could send my grandma or my husband to them and know they're going to get the treatment that they need. Or they're going to make a connection and they're not going to just get pushed off to the side because they're brown. That's what's like hard too. You walk around the hospital, and I feel like that's something that was really different for me is when I thought of doctor, I thought of white and a white powerful male. And even walking around the hospital, that's who you see as doctors. But just knowing that we're changing that by being here, we're changing those demographics, and the demographics are going to change eventually.

Harjit: And hopefully, one day look like our patient populations.

Siale: Yeah.

Harjit: Wouldn't that be so beautiful? And I feel like we're all working towards that. Making our workforce look like the patients we treat. And I think, like you said, it's important. I feel like it's important that we start here with our own classmates.

Siale: Yeah.

Harjit: Okay. Siale, one thing that I love asking everyone that we invite onto this podcast, what is the legacy that you want to leave behind?

Siale: It would be to empower other people, like women of color, people of color. I want to help a lot of people in the medical world, but also I want to help the generations that come after me to feel empowered and feel they can do it because they've seen me do it. If I can do it, anyone can do it.

Harjit: Yeah. That's beautiful. And I think I see the way you spoke about your identities and how important it is to honor your ancestors, keeping that history alive as future generations go.

Siale: Yeah, exactly.

Harjit: So I think that's so cool. Well, it was so great talking to you. It was also great talking about myself. No, just kidding. Okay. Next week, tune into Leen's episode for her Identity series.

Siale: Okay. Wow.

Harjit: I ended with it was great talking to you and talking about myself, so I think you can just . . . So funny. Did you have fun?

Siale: Yeah. That was fun.