S3E28: Looking Back at Med School

Bushra: We don't care what you think, Chloe.

Harjit: I'm so irresponsible. How am I going to be a resident? I'm scared, y'all.

Bushra: Hold on. I have to eat my last chip.

Harjit: One minute. Where's my notes? Hi, y'all. Welcome to "Bundle Of Hers," and we are recording our final episode for season three.

Margaux: Oh, so sad.

Harjit: I know. It's so sad. But today we're all recording, which I'm super excited about. So we have Leen, Margaux, Bushra, and myself. You know, there's a lot of things that we can reflect on not only within our last year of medical school, and especially these last couple of months, but also just in general our entire journey throughout medical school.

Margaux: You said that kind of quickly, but it carries a lot of weight. This is the season finale of season three. That's a big deal.

Harjit: I know. You all, we made it this far.

Bushra: It's like a thing that you always think about but now it's here I don't know how to feel. I don't know how to feel about it. It's just an interesting place to be.

Harjit: I think that every achievement usually takes a lot of time to process. You know, a lot of the moments we've had in medical school and I just wanted to reflect back on kind of the positive/happy/greatest moments of medical school and just wanted to like hear what that was for you.

Margaux: Happiest moments. That's kind of hard. I don't think there was one single or just a couple. In general, a lot of medical school was happy and sad, you know, a mix of both. But if I'm thinking about specific moments, just one that happened recently, I got an email that said like Dr. Miller. You usually you do get some emails that say Dr. Miller like throughout medical school, but this one was after match day and it just like really hit me like this is my title. Like that was a good one.

But I would have to say collectively this year going on interviews and specifically talking about "Bundle Of Hers" and seeing how well received it was with the interviewers was like a really great moment for me just like, hey, this is something that's bigger than us and the university and also getting notes from our listeners, you know, each one of those knowing that we have reached out to somebody somewhere, like it had an impact in their lives.

Bushra: For happy moments. I would agree with you, Margaux, that it's kind of like there's several, you know, sprinkled in throughout the four years of med school. I think one that stands out to me is completing my first rotation in third year and being able to . . . I think I carried a lot of doubt with me, but that first rotation kind of set up a tone for me for the rest of third year because it was like the first time I get to actually practice some medicine with real patients that are my own that I take full autonomy for. And then I had just an excellent, excellent group of residents who taught me . . . it was my first rotation was obstetrics and gynecology, which I had no interest in whatsoever. But I just remember during that rotation feeling like a complete badass.

And it just like started out that year coming off of second year, which was probably one of the worst years right off of taking Step 1 and starting that rotation set up a completely new tone for me for med school. And I just got some confidence in myself and I learned a ton and I applied a ton. And I got a ton of positive feedback as well as constructive criticism as to like how to write a note better or how to present better, all those things. And it's not an easy rotation by any stretch of the imagination. It was actually pretty difficult I would say. But at the end of it, I felt like I could do whatever rotation was following that. And that experience really sticks out for me.

Harjit: Along the same lines. I think professionally, one of my like happiest moments was getting that feedback from my attendings that, you know, it seems like you're learning, it seems like you're growing. And I think I've always . . . There was no way for me to measure how I was doing or how I was progressing other than numbers on a test, which I don't think is the best way to measure progress. So when that started happening in third year, I think that was kind of like the greatest moment for me. And then personally, honestly, it's like all of our dinners where we would just eat food, talk about people, talk about medicine, talk about systems like those were like times that really meant a lot to me. And then we could solidify that with our podcast.

Bushra: Just to Harjit's point, sometimes we like put hanging out in front of like maybe setting for a shelf but I don't regret those decisions, not even one bit. Because I think that being able to decompress helped me a lot in terms of just like dealing with med school as a whole.

Leen: Now that we've matched, we're like no regrets. It's kind of hard to choose one. But I think the one that really sticks out to me that I even think about to this day was my away rotation at Stanford. I met the most amazing people. Like it was the first time I found myself as a part of this Palestinian American community that's in my generation, not like my parents' generation or anything and going to film festivals, Arab film festivals, and just seeing how my culture has taken root in the American culture firsthand, yeah, I think I was so grateful for med school because I wouldn't be able to have that experience without going to med school, right?

Bushra: I mean, going along with our happier moments, we can all agree that there were some tough times during med school. It just kind of comes with the territory. I think for me, there are a couple. Just a few tough times, hard times during med school. I think the big one for me was Step 1, studying for Step 1, you know, dedicated study time during Step 1, which on average is six weeks. That as a whole was tough because I felt very isolated. I felt like my life wrapped around memorizing a lot of weird and inconspicuous facts in order to increase my Step score that I probably don't remember them right now, a lot of them. And I think I put a lot of self-worth and self-value in the scores that I was getting and the score that I wanted. And when I wasn't reaching that it just affected me negatively.

And it was hard to deal with and I didn't necessarily reach out for help like I should have been doing, and obviously hindsight is 2020. But I think what I gained from that was in studying for Step 2-CK, was that there was no way in hell I was going to put a Step 2 score above my mental health. And whatever score came out at the end of it I did the best that I could. And I'm still going to be a great doctor and this test is not going to define me as a person.

Margaux: I agree with you, Bushra. Studying for Step 1 was a dark time in medical school. And I'm really glad they're making it pass/fail because I think that will take off that pressure like you were talking about. But for me, some of the hardest moments in med school were wondering if we were doing no harm or doing the right thing for a patient or not being able to do something for a patient. So specifically on psychiatry, we had a lot of patients that were homeless and they'd come in and get acutely treated, but then you know you're discharging them back to the street, back to no resources. And that was really hard and continues to be really hard for me to grasp or to handle. We know how to help these people but we don't always have the resources or the ability to be able to. So those patients were really hard for me in medical school and I think that will continue to be something hard dealing with in residency.

And then the other thing that stands out to me is one of the more difficult moments but also I'm really glad that I had it in medical school was the death of my patient when I was on my pediatrics sub-I this summer. Unlike patients who were in the ICU and older or more critical, I guess, that I had died before this one was a teenager and the death kind of happened very suddenly and unexpectedly. And so that was very difficult to go through that whole process acutely and something that I think about a lot still to this day.

Harjit: When I kind of think of my most difficult moments, they really are when I value the expectations everybody else had of me or what I thought people had of me over myself. I think those kind of were like super defining for all the moments that were super difficult for me. I struggled a lot when I started medical school thinking that I don't even know how they even accepted me, you know, like there's no way I can pass any of these tests. There's no way I can even get through medical school. And I think that was really scary because it was like I was already accepted and I felt like the world knew so I couldn't fail. But then I didn't really value like, "No, medicine is important for me and that's what I should care about."

So that was kind of very difficult moment for me. The next one was Step 1. And I think it was again that struggle that I can't even pass a test because I couldn't pass my test until the week before my exam. And it was that constant struggle like, "This is it. This is where I'm going to get caught. This is where I'm going to be like leaving this place," right? It was a bunch of like what I thought success was measured as. I had to really shift the way I thought about success. I had to shift the way I thought about, you know, like what mattered. And also when it came to the wards whenever I felt like someone didn't understand that all because I didn't know one fact doesn't mean that I don't understand this whole system.

Leen: I think I can echo many of these points. I think one of the big ones for me was during Step 2 study. I have never felt more alone and impending doom than that time where I found myself like not being able to get the scores that I needed right before the test. I would say my next most, scariest and probably most difficult moment in medical school was during my surgery rotation. It was just such a weird environment where I don't know if it was the way my personality came into the team or anything, but I just did not feel like it was a great learning environment for me. And I just felt like I was so focused on my personality, not fitting in because that was the feedback I was getting.

I think the hierarchy of medicine and just the very . . . it was almost like out of a movie. You know, like when you see a medical movie, like this is what you expect it to be. It was like that. And I was like, "Whoa, this is not what I was expecting it to be." And then I think also dealing with just family stuff. That stuff just kind of was a theme throughout my four years. And I'm glad that I've made it past that. Because there's few moments that have shook me med school that I thought maybe I'm not going to make it because of the external factors.

Harjit: That effect is very profound and we don't realize that of how much the external factors impact our journey in medical school. So I really want to just echo that point because I think that that's just been an underlying thing throughout our journey in medicine and even beyond.

Leen: But on a lighter note, what would you guys say your funniest or most embarrassing moment of med school was. There's way too many to count. I honestly I'm trying to think I feel like it's one of those things where like the more you talk about it, the more you remember these scenarios. But I guess the one that I can think of off the top my head was when my resident was like, "Leen, not having a bowel movement for seven days is called constipation." And I was like, "What?"

Margaux: For me it was like not being able to find the right word to say what you mean or the symptom or something or just saying something totally wrong especially drug names. Like you think you read it right but then it comes time to present on rounds and you totally butcher the name of the medication or I think . . .

Leen: Oh, my gosh, Propranolol.

Margaux: Yeah, and people were pretty stern about it. But it's funny. I think the most embarrassing one that I said was so titubating is . . . right? That's the right way to say it. Now I can never remember it. Anyways. One is a neurological symptom and the other is titillating, which is a completely inappropriate sexual thing. And when you say that with a straight face and everyone starts bursting out laughing you're like, "What did I say?" So that was my most embarrassing probably. Also I think back on season two I described putting on the gloves in OB for the first time and turning around without . . . the baby had already been born but meanwhile I'm trying to get my gloves on. So there's just tons of embarrassing moments but that makes it fun.

Bushra: This is fun to recount. Other than reintroducing myself to someone I had already met prior which I talked in past seasons. An embarrassing thing that I did recently on my last rotation, this is embarrassing. Anyways. We were on rounds and I was presenting my patient . . . I had like maybe five patients that day. I felt pretty confident during rounds or whatever and then we walk into the patient room and then I realized that I had presented on the wrong patient. Because they have like literally similar names and I had put like rounds paperwork for one patient in one pocket and then the other patient in the other pocket to remember, "Hey, they have similar names. Don't forget."

Yeah, I presented on the wrong patient and they had like similar diagnoses too. And I was like, "Yeah." And, I mean, luckily like nothing I said was like the too like off but then like we walked out of the room and I was like to the attending, "Oh, by the way, everything I just said was for patient next door."

Harjit: FYI.

Bushra: FYI. And he's like, "We've all made that mistake before. No worries." Or something like that. Yeah, I'm going to try to never make that mistake ever again because it could lead to worse outcomes for patient and that was just a rookie mistake that I made and I recognized. But that mistake is hopefully going to make me a better doctor. And you know what? The good thing about being a student is there's a million people checking your work, double checking your work.

Harjit: This is true. I mean, they should be. I know sometimes they don't. But for me the most embarrassing . . . I mean, like all the time with like classmates, conversations with attendings and residents, like I just say whatever comes to my mind. So I'm the type of person I don't process before I speak sometimes, which lands me in a lot of trouble. Mostly it's funny trouble but I just feel like people then will be like, "Oh, my God, she doesn't know what she's talking about." But I'm just like, "Wait, I'm just thinking out loud. Like this is how I think."

One moment which I didn't mean it to be embarrassing but it kind of became embarrassing was I was on my surgery rotation and me and my classmate there was two of us on the same surgery rotation and we were saying bye to our surgery intern and our surgery resident, and I like leaving just because I felt so emotional, I was like, "Oh, can I please have a hug?" And they all burst out laughing. They're like, "Yes, you can hug us." And I was like, "Oh, thanks so much." But I think they just thought it was so funny because it was an odd request. And I was like, "I really appreciate all that you did for us and so I just want to give them a hug."

Margaux: Yeah. But you know what it makes the embarrassing moments better is having the people who are around you to receive that embarrassing moment like take it well. Like for you, Bushra, that attending was just like, "Hey, it happens to all of us." And so I think it would be a great time now to recognize and thank those people in our lives in our medical school careers that really made everything possible for us. And I think to start for most of us, we have some people in common who have been also not only supporters of us as individuals but as the podcast, "Bundle Of Hers." I will start off with Moe and Shawnee who had different jobs within the medical student admissions . . . not admissions, with administration and were people we could always go and talk to and continue to support us in social media and in every way possible. So they're pretty big for us.

Bushra: They were like our cheerleaders through med school. I'd go to their office just like wander down the hall just to see if they're like they're and available just so I can be like, "Moe, I'm so stressed out right now." And just like dump all my things and they would say encouraging things to pick us up when we're down, and I really appreciate that.

Margaux: And then also in the administration I'll say Mike [Mann 00:17:38]. Yeah. Mike does all of our schedules and has the patience of I don't even know what to deal with all the medical students' stress in making their schedules. I think I probably would be in jail for killing somebody if I had his job because med students are so whiny and annoying especially stressed about when it comes to their schedules and he just handles it so well. And then Dr. Baumann in the academic success.

Bushra: I think like the first semester during Foundations of Med School, I was like, "Oh, I don't need academic success. Like I'm not really struggling that hard." I was struggling. And then finally I wandered into Dr. Baumann's office and he made me feel so comfortable coming to him. And he gave me actionable items to see how I can improve my test scores and even like studying for Step 1, he gives you hard data goals to Step 4. He's a very encouraging no matter where you are in the spectrum of med school and like that support in and of itself, like I don't know that I could have finished med school without it.

Harjit: I'm not that huge of a crier but he's like the only one I went to and cried to because I was failing my test and I've already alluded to this, and I passed the week before my actual Step 1 exam. And he got me through it. Like he has so much experience. And he really understands students as students, which I think is the most beautiful part. Like even though he's in the administration area, I think he like puts our emotions kind of at like a great place and allows us to find strength in ourselves.

One thing I'm always reminded of is how "Bundle Of Hers" has really grounded me in this process and how thankful I am that we have this platform. And it was only possible because we had two producers who really believed in us, Scott and Chloe. They are the magic behind "Bundle Of Hers." I think the most powerful thing a person can have is a platform, but not everyone gets that opportunity. So just to have that opportunity I think really kept me going in medical school, remembering that I'm doing this for a reason, like my graduation is more than just mine and it's for our people, really, really like was something that I think the producers of the show got, and they allowed that opportunity for us. And Chloe's literally become like our friend and mentor. And we kind of get into it sometimes, but she always makes us grow and be better people. And for that I'm so thankful.

Margaux: I would also add, Mitch and Kathy and the behind the scenes that we don't really work with up front but that are also supporting and propelling the podcast forward and funding us in U Health from the beginning, you know, like giving us the space and promoting us.

Leen: And then you know, the earth and the universe and Jesus and God and all the love and the stars and the horoscopes that I read every day.

Bushra: I didn't know you were a horoscope person.

Leen: I'm not. Med school makes you a little bit superstitious.

Harjit: I love it, Leen. I love it.

Margaux: And I think along this way, we couldn't have done it without the mentors that we've had.

Harjit: There's so many. Like when you come down to it, it takes like a lot of people to kind of get you where you are. And it's just remembering those stories and remembering like everyone is so connected to you.

Margaux: And then also to all of our patients or for me, like I feel like they were so patient in the learning process and to be open to allowing a learner into your experience, into your very vulnerable healthcare experience. Sometimes they don't want to but I feel like for the most part, the patients were very caring and I learned something from each and every patient. So I would give a huge shout out to all of our patients.

Harjit: Every patient is another story that we can gain knowledge from and they are allowing us to become better doctors. So I totally agree with that. I am so grateful for them. They're the foundation of obviously us becoming the doctors we will become.

Margaux: There are obviously so many people that needs to be thanked for supporting us as a podcast and us as individuals. Something that I'm been trying to be intentional about during quarantine is reaching out to those people making a list and letting them know how much of an impact they had in my life. And so that's been very meaningful to me.

Harjit: Yeah, Margaux. I think that remind bringing those people that have kind of made your journey the way they have is something that's kind of been getting me through the quarantine as well. And a question that I often ask all the people that we usually interview is what is the legacy that they want to leave behind? We're kind of ending this chapter of medical school and I thought it'd be really cool to kind of see what our response is to that question is and kind of what do we see ourselves doing next? In which places do we see ourselves growing? In what ways do we want people to remember us? So with that like what are y'all thoughts on what the legacy that you want to leave behind is?

Bushra: For me, it's hard to think about the future a lot of the times. But as far as the legacy that I want to leave, I've said this in a previous episode in the past, I think one of the goals for me in doing med school and completing it is to allow people to see that regardless of the circumstances that you come from, the background that you have, the adversities that you face and while it's hard, a lot of the times harder than your peers or counterparts that it is possible to not only survive, but thrive in this environment. And with that comes, like we said, in the episode, a lot of support and people that help you get there.

For me, like one of my goals is just to let people. Like the fact that I'm here and the fact that I'm visible, the fact that I did this, I'm going to be a freaking doctor, like that's insane. It should tell people that they can do it too. I want to continue to not only have an impact, but I want an impact on myself too. In terms of like thinking about a lot of the things that I'm ignorant on and a lot of things that I need to learn and a lot of like personal growth that I need to do, it's going to be a challenge. But this was a challenge too and I'm coming out of it a better person at the end of the day.

Leen: I think for the next little bit, my biggest goal or what I hope to grow into is becoming an independent physician who is confident and able to boost the next people like me. And part of that is the legacy I hope to leave behind is one that I've always . . . it's been the same since I started med school and it's to create a path for those to follow behind to get to their goals, especially those who really identify with my story or identify with my background. And that's a very broad specification, but I feel like that's what we're here for, right? Like that's why we started this podcast. That's why we continue to persevere through all of our rotations and everything that med school life threw at us we persevere through it.

Margaux: Both of what you, Leen, and Bushra said really resonates with me. And I would second it and add that for me the legacy I hope to leave is that platform and the acknowledgement that voice and sharing the stories of underrepresented stories can create community can help you find your way can acknowledge that our system is broken and start to make change. And that's my goal moving forward is to continue to use the voice that I've found through this podcast and with all of you to continue to make change in the things that we have openly acknowledged and feel are wrong with the system or with the stories, the experiences that we have that we may feel isolated when we don't share them with others. And so I hope to continue creating that space and community and amplifying voices.

Harjit: That's beautifully said, Margaux. And I think along the question with what legacy do you want to leave behind? I'm reminded of Dr. Hussain who said that that's something you're always constructing. And I'm also reminded that our legacies are intertwined and built upon each other. So in that sense, I hope that if there's one thing someone can maybe learn from me is just trying to be the truest person that I could be and making the choices that I wanted for myself by myself. Those are the kind of things that I continue to also want to grow into. Like Leen said, gaining that independence not only as a physician but also as a person to . . . this education, I fought for it because I knew it was the only agency I would have for a choice. And making choices are so important because a lot of people don't get that opportunity. So I hope that in that way we can continue to encourage others.

And I really hope that we will continue with this podcast to uplift every story that's not been heard, that doesn't have the opportunity or the platform to be heard. And I'm so excited to also continue our journey a "Bundle Of Hers." I think this is a beautiful way to end our season kind of just reflecting on how we've grown as people. And we are so fortunate and lucky that we can share that growth with everybody else.

So with that, we are looking forward to continuing our conversation on our next season of "Bundle Of Hers." Thank you everyone so much for supporting us and just know that you have contributed to our journeys as well. And for that we are eternally grateful. We are always on Instagram, so please follow us @BundleOfHers. If you have any feedback, any things you want to know, any resources you need, please don't feel shy to reach out to us. Thank you so much. Another season down.

Margaux: Nice.

Harjit: Say something funny, Leen. Sing a song.

Leen: What? What do you want me to say? I hate endings. No, just kidding. Don't put that in there. Okay, bye.

Harjit: You're funny, Leen.

Bushra: Until next time, folks. Bye-bye.

Harjit: Okay, Chloe. We're done.