S4E15: Collective Voices Against Oppression

Harjit: Leen, how's fasting going?

Leen: I was trying to ignore it up until this moment. Thanks.

Harjit: And then I reminded you about the food.

Leen: Right.

Margaux: There's the TikTok of a white boss asking a guy, "Are you Ramadan-ing?"

Harjit: Really? Oh my gosh. I didn't see that TikTok.

Margaux: I have to send it to you.

Leen: Merry Ramadan.

Margaux: Merry Ramadan.

Harjit: Shall we start, y'all?

Margaux: Yes.

Harjit: Let's do this thing. Hi, everyone. Welcome to "Bundle Of Hers." In our makeshift studio are Margaux, Leen, and me. We're all vaccinated. Whoop, whoop. Anyhow, we are in the studio, fake studio, makeshift studio, whatever you want to call it, and we are really excited to continue our conversation from our episode topic about labor movements and collective power. If you have not already checked out Episode 1, please go ahead and do that.

And just a little bit of a recap, in Episode 1, we discussed how we really aren't aware about where the products come from that we consume. And there's a reason why we're not aware. There's a reason why a lot of the chain aspect of supplies is hidden from our people and ourselves.

And I think there are examples of great movements that have helped us understand how a collective consciousness can be awakened and how we can move forward and try to combat these powers that are literally killing us.

So with that, Margaux, do you want to give an example about a movement that has raised collective consciousness?

Margaux: Yeah. So in Part 1, we talked about how most of us in this room don't know where our clothes were made or who made them, and I think that's a very common thing for a lot of people. The garment workers' labor movement has sort of been an evolving thing. I think it starts in my consciousness and I think when we think mainstream media, too, in the 1970s, when Nike was first exposed for using child labor and sweatshops in their quest for cheap labor and to expand their company.

I remember a lot as a kid hearing about it on the news, but not quite fully understanding. And now when I think back and look back at what has happened since then, the fact that Nike has been able to persist and a lot of their actions were performative in the change that they tried to create and the statements that they made . . . And it was really isolated to Nike. Behind Nike were a lot of other big brands that were still participating in the same sort of child labor and sweatshops, but they weren't put on the front.

And I think as social media became a bigger platform for discussion and news, we started hearing more about these sweatshops and child labor and horrible conditions which garment workers were working under, but it really wasn't until 2013. So it was actually April 24th, 2013. Almost seven years ago? Is that right?

Harjit: It's actually eight years ago.

Margaux: Eight years ago. Thank you. I was like, "Can't do math on the fly." Almost eight years ago to date where Rana Plaza in Bangladesh collapsed, and that building housed five garment factories. It killed more than 1,000 laborers and injured more than 2,500 people. Five months prior to that collapse of that building, there was a fire at another factory in Bangladesh that also killed many workers.

This collapse made news and I think caught people's attention of, "Hey, companies like H&M and Zara were housed here and other big-name brands and these people died and they're the ones making our clothes." I think it was the first time we were really exposed to that. I don't know. Leen, do you remember hearing about that?

Leen: I do actually remember seeing that on the news as well, seeing the footage from different angles. It wasn't just from U.S. media. I was seeing it from other media sources as well. And just how even before . . . obviously, this is what brought it to light, but they've been having issues for that prior to the fire or the collapse.

And it's just crazy to think that these big brands that you see in the malls, the most fanciest brands, the brands everybody wants, and this is where they're made and how they're made. It took the bad incident to unveil all the things that were happening prior to that as well. It's crazy to think that all these big brands were part of that.

Margaux: Yeah, exactly. I hadn't really thought much about garment workers and who was making my clothes and the condition that these people were working in prior to this. And this incident really sparked a lot of, rightfully so, outrage. And this incident I think really started to get the collective voice together for the garment workers to fight for their rights and speak up against what was happening.

However, like we mentioned and talked about in the first part of this series, we often don't have power. These people don't have power. We talked about how in residency, we're so overworked and our brains get numb and to the point where we just don't even want to think about bad things. Imagine having so little power that all you can do is go to work even if your conditions are so bad, unsafe, the work hours are awful, unethical treatment, abusive treatment, and you have no power to change it because you rely so heavily on the little money that you do make to survive.

Harjit: I think a really important part is the psychological tactics. And I think that's something we'll end up talking a little bit later on in this episode, is how it's literally chipping away your core. You don't even have it in you to be like, "I want to fight for something." I think that's the illusion that is created and you start believing it. Some of it obviously is also real because you really don't have power when you're a laborer.

Leen: That actually reminds me of a more recent incident that happened with a patient I took care of. They didn't want to report the incident that happened at work. One, they're undocumented and so they were nervous that they're going to lose their job. But what happened was that they work in brick washing and their hands got burned with hydrofluoric acid.

And so they came in and they were saying, "Hey, can you just help me with what's going on, help me with this?" And I said, "Yeah, but I don't know the product that you were burned with. Am I able to contact your company to ask about the product?" And they were like, "No, don't contact the company."

They were obviously nervous. They were saying their whole livelihood depends on this job that, one, is cheap labor, but two, for an undocumented person who's just trying to make it in the United States, this was their livelihood. And they kept saying, "No, don't contact the company. Don't contact them. Just treat me the way I am here."

And so I think it's crazy, the psychological . . . it's almost like domestic violence if you think about it. You can't run away from it. You're too scared to run away from it. There's clearly something dragging you back and it's not in your power.

And then your whole will of survival is tied into that, meaning if you don't do XYZ, you're going to suffer XYZ. I think it's crazy. I think it's very close to home as well and we just don't realize it.

Harjit: Yeah. These conditions kind of . . . they're both at a local side, but they're also at a global side. And I think saying that, "Oh, this is happening somewhere else," is . . . it's like, "No, everything is connected."

From day one, we've been talking about anti-black racism, we've been talking about feminism, we've been talking about the way we view weight. All of these topics are interconnected. No topic is isolated to another, and I think that's something that we always have to remember as well.

Margaux: Yeah, it's so true. And I think we should move into the next movement. But after the collapse of the Rana Plaza, I think people started to become more aware. And now, more recently, there has been a lot of news about the Uyghur ethnic minorities in China, and they are forced into labor amongst all different parts of supply chains from growing and gathering cotton, picking cotton, to working in the factory sewing clothing.

Although this time I think there's a lot of pressure and they are trying to move away from that. And so I think it's sort of a change, but again, an example of a movement coming from the people who themselves are oppressed and using social media to transmit this information in a collective voice.

Leen: And I think that's one of the cases that shows you how strongly embedded capitalism is in political motivations and racial ideations. So for instance, the Uyghur Muslim, an ethnic minority group, what it is it's an ethnic cleansing. It's a concentration camp of ethnic cleansing where they're trying to get rid of this minority because it doesn't fall under whatever communist ideals that are going on.

But on top of that, they're saying, "Well, instead of getting rid of them, we can strip identities, and then we can make them force labor workers in concentration camps." How far do the fingers of capitalism dive into every single of these social issues across the world, and how far does it find the opportunity to jump at when it's like, "Oh, here's an oppressed people, let's make them work"? It's so crazy to think how far this is all connected and it's such a big monster, man.

Margaux: No, it's so true. I think about who made our scrubs all the time.

Leen: And I think the one thing about this collective atrocity is if you're lucky enough to get some sort of publicity to shine at your problem, but many people don't have that. But I think one instance where publicity was able to be given was with the farmers protest in India. Was it Rihanna who first posted about it on Twitter? And then that's when it started building up momentum, but it's been going on before then.

And I think this is why it's important to have these kinds of conversations, to have these voices and put them on platforms, because maybe that's just what they need.

Harjit: Leen, I think that it's really cool that you brought up that example because that's something that I wanted to talk about when I think of collective power. And I also think of how, if you think about it, it's like a top 1%. If we're counting bodies, if we're counting Cubans as bodies, there are more people that are oppressed than the ones oppressing. So then you think, "So if that's the case, why is it that the dynamic isn't shifting?"

And I think that is what is so powerful about systems, like we said, physically, psychologically, socially make you feel like you're nothing, basically, in simple words.

With a protest that's happening in India, I think it was like the world's largest protest. And a lot of this started coming out in last year . . . it was in the summer. A lot of people didn't care about it because that's how things usually happen. Something is taken away, and then people are like, "Wait, this seems different."

So there were three new agricultural regulation laws, which were approved by India's parliament back in September 2020. And basically, the gist of it is they allowed farmers to sell directly to buyers and bypass the government. And part of it is like, "Okay, is that better because they're not dealing with the government?"

But the government back in I think it was 1930s had created these things called Mandis. I'm so sorry. It's actually 1960s. They created these things called Mandis, which were markets. So as a farmer, I could sell, say, okra. I know. Okra is really yummy. I love okra [inaudible 00:11:46]. So as a farmer, I could sell okra. I'd go to these Mandis and be like, "Hey, could you buy these okras?" And they'd say, "Okay, you can take $5 for this okra." But they always had this minimum set price. So basically, if you were able to grow food, you would get money for it.

These new laws make it so you're going directly to private buyers. Now, the thing with that is private buyers will keep on reducing prices. They'll only offer so much prices and then there will be competition, and someone might be like, "Oh, I can sell my stuff for cheaper so buy it from me." And they can also hoard goods and products, and it's basically, in a sense, again, that whole capitalistic system: making the rich richer and the poor poorer.

The farmers notice this. They're like, "We're going to lose money with this. You all are going to think it's okay to just make these laws when they're actually impacting us as farmers?" And the farmers weren't even involved in this. This was all done by corporations. It basically opens up the market for exploitation. I think that's the biggest issue.

Now, you might think, "I'm in America. Who cares what's happening in India?" But we are eating this food. The turmeric you're using for your golden lattes is coming from Punjab, or a rice or wheat that you're eating is coming from north and south India. And all these farmers got together and they were like, "We're protesting. We're basically not going to go to work. We're going to go to the capital, and we're going to say, 'Hey, you can't change these laws without our knowing.'" And that is them building collective power.

But again, government is very tied to corporations and capitalism, so a lot of this is being silenced. And like Leen mentioned, Rihanna kind of tweeted out about this, and since then, there's been a lot more traction and understanding of what's happening in India.

But what's happening in India is happening in America. And what's happening in America is happening in China. It's a global issue, and us saying that we're not part of it is also not a good way to be.

There's also power in understanding that we're a collective, we're together, we're a community. And if we're together, we can do anything. But when you're poor, you think you're alone. I think that's where I'm saying that whole mindset or the illusion that you're by yourself, you don't have power, is something that is so easy to buy into.

I buy into it every day, right? I remember in medical school, I was like, "If I make one wrong move, they're going to kick me out." It's a very different example as well because I am in a much more privileged position, but the whole idea is that we're made to believe something that's not real. And I think that being poor and thinking we have no power . . . and the truth is yes, we don't actually have power, but if we get together, then we would have power.

I think that it really is interesting because it kind of ties into medicine. If everyone is sick and tired of something, why are we not all getting together and being like, "Why is this wrong? Why can't we fix the system? Where do you think that weakness is?"

Margaux: That was a lot. That was a fully loaded question and I love it. I think, Harjit, part of the system that we function and the capitalistic system that has allowed this oppression to happen is because there's also a hierarchy. We buy into that hierarchy and we feel physically and geographically and visually separated from the farmers in Punjab and the farmers in California and the garment workers in Bangladesh.

We are distanced from them purposefully, but then we're also socialized to buy into these hierarchical systems that make us feel different from them. I think that can translate to when we think about residency and medical school, even pre-med. You feel a different level and a different power at each step of the way because that hierarchy is designed for it.

Harjit: Yeah. And we do feel that. I feel much more confident now that I'm a resident than I was a pre-med student. And that's the thing. Even though we're having these conversations and we're trying to be critical, we also get stuck in that cycle.

Margaux: That's how deeply ingrained it is to us. And for us in medical system, we are privileged to be in a pathway that we are climbing the ladder, so to speak. But when we think about the garment workers or the farm workers, there really isn't a ladder set for them intentionally, right?

Harjit: Right. It stays exactly. It's like, "This is our life, this is where we're going to be, and we're never going to get anywhere ahead." And that's what ends up happening too. It's not that that was an unheard-of thought. People just stay in those cycles because they're forced to stay there because of powers that are beyond them.

I'm really grateful that I'm able to be in a position where I even have time to think about these things. I am grateful for, as I grow older, is I'm learning more. I'm learning more from people, from my peers, from my patients. And when I learn more, I also understand more.

And I think that is key. We need education. And education doesn't have to come formally, but it can come through social media. It can come through stories. It can come and be passed on generation to generation. Collective power is so important for us to fight against things that, again, like I started this episode with, are literally killing us.

So with that, I am really happy that we were able to have this conversation about some movements around the world that give us examples of how powerful people can be.

And in the next episode, which is Part 3 of our topic on labor movements and collective power, we will discuss how everything is tied to politics, which I think is something a lot of people are scared to talk about.

So with that, we are so thankful that you are listening to our episodes and you have been a part of our "Bundle Of Hers" families. Families. We are one family, but we could be families.

So thank you everyone for listening. We are "Bundle Of Hers." You can find us @bundleofhers on all social media platforms, or a majority of them, Instagram mostly. Please listen to us on any podcast platforms.

Stay tuned for a sneak peek for our next episode. Bye-bye.

Margaux: Say we do recognize that labor laws and trade laws are not fair and unjust and oppressive. What voice do we have to change the government powers?

Leen: But at the end of the day, I think what even ties politics to that is money. It's whether you're making the capital gains that you need in order to stay on top.

Harjit: We all kind of know it's important, and we are also all supposed to prescribe to politics. Everything is tied back to politics, but it's something that we're taught not to talk about.