S2E24: Social Media's Influence

Bushra: I'm going to fail surgery, but it's fine.

Harjit: I can prepare you for your surgery shelf on Thursday night.

Bushra: Are you sure?

Harjit: Mm-hmm. That one, it was my best score, bro.

Bushra: All right, let's do it. You guys ready? Welcome back to another riveting episode of "The Bundle of Hers." We have me, Bushra, Harjit, and Margaux in studio today. We're missing Leen but, you know, we'll make up for her lost personality in one way or another. So today, I want to talk about soc-meds, #socialmedia.

Harjit: Do you really . . . do people really say soc-meds?

Bushra: I do and the ladies from "2 Dope Queens" do, so obviously . . .

Harjit: Oh, yes. I actually have heard that.

Margaux: I've never heard you say soc-meds until this very second, but okay.

Bushra: You don't know my life, Margaux. Gosh. Anyway, so social media. All of us have social media. The "Bundle of Hers" collectively have a popping Instagram account, if I do say so myself. I just kind of want to talk about the age of "social influencer" status, particularly in the realm of medicine because we see a lot of, like, medical students and physicians who post a lot about their lives on social media and how representative it is of real life.

So, question number one, do you think that social media is helpful or harmful for people who want to pursue a career in medicine?

Margaux: That's a loaded question, Bushra.

Bushra: I know.

Margaux: I would say both, and it depends on, like, who in the mindset that you are viewing it, and then what content is being posted and how authentic it is. So I would just say that I think, in general, social media can very easily be toxic. For example, if I were to see a post of you and Harjit doing something after school that I wasn't invited to . . .

Bushra: FOMO.

Margaux: Exactly. Even though I knew that you guys knew I was in surgery that day and, obviously, wouldn't have been able to make it, just looking at that post somehow stirs up these very negative emotions for me. And so I think that's the innate tendency of social media even with your friends and the people that you love. So I think you always have to keep that in the back of your head.

And then, I think it becomes even stronger when you see people that you don't actually know in person, because you don't know what's behind the scenes of the picture. And so that can have even more potential for you to create this, like, image in your head that isn't reality and isn't authentic, and then strive for goals that maybe aren't attainable and that that person that you're viewing or trying to emulate is not even actually doing. So that would be my first initial thoughts.

Bushra: That was well said.

Harjit: I'm actually so happy, Margaux, that you gave that story, because I think, a lot of the times, we are very, like, not vocal about how we feel about things. And I'm just so proud that you said that in front of us, you know? Like, "You know what? You're all hanging out without me and not invited me." I think it requires a lot of, like, self-reflection for you to even have that thought process. So I just want to appreciate that for a moment.

Margaux: Thanks.

Harjit: I think that your feelings are very valid because that is one thing. Like, we don't fully know a person's life, right? So, when we see moments of them, it's hard for you . . . even if you're an authentic Instragramer or a social media personality, it's really hard to keep it fully authentic. And I think that's one thing that the consumers need to understand.

But the thing is social media preys on our "faults." Actually, I don't want to say faults. It's not really faults. But it, like, feeds off of those energies, you know. And no matter how authentic of a social media personality you are, it depends on the person who's taking it in, you know? And I think that's kind of where it comes to. So when you ask me, "Is it harmful or helpful," I think it depends on the person who's viewing it.

Bushra: Absolutely. I think I posed that question in a black and white sort of framework, because it's not black and white. It really isn't, because I think there's a lot of good that comes from it, a lot of exposure that people get that they wouldn't have otherwise because it makes the world a smaller place essentially. But something that we have to understand is that a lot of it is curated. Even our Instagram page is pretty curated as well. We try to keep it as authentic as possible, but nobody looks great 100% of the time or not everybody has a great experience all the time. And that's just something that we have to kind of reconcile with.

As human beings, we have faults. But the thing that we post on social media for the most part is . . . we give glimpses of a lot of the good stuff that happens because it feels good to share, like, the good things, you know?

Harjit: Yeah, you just want to share it with the world. And I will say, Bushra, that we do actually have some posts, because I've specifically, like, written them for the purpose of, "Man, life's hard." But I realize even when I write those posts, they're shorter than the, you know, achievement ones. We only have one or two of those.

Like, I had a really hard couple of weeks and I posted something this week, and I basically . . . I saw a picture that I was really happy in, right? And it reminded me,"Oh, this is the happiness that I need to remember and not let go of in this moment of sadness." And knowing that there's also fear and relief in knowing that moments are going to pass.

I remember seeing that picture and I was like, "I love this picture, but I think it's very important that I write, 'I'm not feeling good right now.'" So even that, I think it took a positive spin, right? And you're right, everything is curated because that picture was edited, you know? It was a really good picture that made me happy.

Bushra: It was a fabulous picture.

Harjit: Right. I wasn't going to post a picture of me crying.

Bushra: For the accounts that I follow or that I gravitate towards, regardless of whatever photo they post, I really like reading captions that I identify with or I have . . . I can share the same similar feelings to that . . .

Harjit: Me, too.

Bushra: You get a sense of, like, authenticity and a person behind the social media account. And just to know that, like, everybody struggles and we're all human and we all have kind of roadblocks in our way to achieving whatever goals that we want. It's kind of nice to know that we're all kind of on the same playing field and that we all struggle, something that tells me that everything in your life is not perfect, you know?

Harjit: Right.

Margaux: It's so interesting that you both just said that you like to read the captions. For me, if it's more than, like, two sentences, I don't read it. I'm a very visual person and I don't . . . reading is just . . . I don't know. I like to read books and stuff, but I tend to, like, look at the pictures of Instagram. If they're not visually appealing to me, then I don't gravitate towards these accounts. I very rarely find myself actually reading the captions.

For me personally, if I have to click the "More" to read, I don't do it. That's just my personality. But I recognize that a lot of people do read and find value in reading the sections. And so, when I do write a post, I write it very mindfully. Like you said, both of you are very mindful about the words that we post on "Bundle of Hers." And so, for me, it actually takes a lot of time and energy to write a post, but I do it. And I know that there are a lot of people out there who are like me and all about just the visual, but for those people who also like to read. And I think that being able to have the balance of appealing to the visual-oriented people and the people who actually like to read comments as well and find the value in it combined, or one or the other.

Harjit: That's an important viewpoint because, like we said, everyone has kind of a different purpose to the content that they consume.

And also, I was just thinking about how helpful social media can be. And I think one reason is we connect with these people that kind of show their raw self to the world. I also really think it's great because a lot of these social media platforms use it to, like, disseminate information, like, "There's this cause going on," or, "Did you guys know that this is happening?" And I know you have to filter that as well because some is fake news. But I think that I really connect with the ones that, you know, their causes that they fight for or the things that they care about are things that I care about. For me, in that way, social media is good.

Bushra: For the people who have . . . and I'm interested to see what you guys think about this . . . who have very large social presence, do you think that they have a social responsibility for the things that they post on their social media accounts because they have that influence and that they can kind of mold an impressionable person's mind? Do you think that they should be careful about what they post?

Margaux: I would say yes. And I think most people who are "social media influencers" or who have these large bodies of followers are doing whatever they're doing for a purpose. Like, I think they have one passionate platform or something that drove them to that. But then they should be mindful that they are influencing a lot of people and that they are posting honest and authentic and real things.

There's a doctor on Instagram . . . so when we were talking about, like, medical influencers . . . who is a female cardiologist, which is pretty cool, and I have been following her and kind of inspired by a lot of the things she was saying. And then one day, she posted something that was, like, "Medicine is not yoga. Medicine is not food. Medicine is not whatever." Then, basically at the end, she was like, "The only thing that's medicine is medicine."

And that kind of . . . I was shocked to the core because I was like, "There is some data to suggest that doing these mindful wellness extra things help human health." And by automatically dismissing that, she kind of just cut off a huge population of patients or switched people's mindsets to think that the only thing that's going to fix them is medication instead of having a more holistic approach. And that, to me, was really shocking.

And so that may have been her true personal opinion, but then thinking critically about it, I was, like, totally put off by it.

Bushra: I remember we talked about that a while ago. Do you still follow her, just out of curiosity?

Margaux: Yeah. I actually debated going back and forth. And you know how the algorithm of Instagram is, like, the less you like something, then the less it shows up on your feed? It's a balance because you can't just unfollow everything that upsets you because then you're going to have a very narrow-minded view of the world and only see what you want to see, which may be a good thing or not. But I was like, "I'm just not going to delete it right now and see how this progresses." And then, I think since I haven't been liking that stuff as much, it hasn't come up. But that was kind of my thought process about it.

Bushra: I guess my thought process is I'm never going to agree with someone 100% on everything that they say. And so, yeah, I disagree with you on that point, but I agree with her on so many other things, so . . .

Harjit: Yeah. I think when I first started . . . my journey with social media is really interesting. So I'm Punjabi and I like . . . I'm Indian, so I love Hindi movies and Bollywood. So I used to follow all the Bollywood stars. I used to follow, like, all the big American social media influencers. Basically, all the big people on social, I used to follow them, right? And I'd obviously follow all my friends as well.

And then I realized, literally, I would have to rake through all these extra posts just to see what my friends are doing. In that sense, I like social media because there are people I don't see all the time, but I love seeing them succeed and, like, doing big things. And I'm like, "Oh, it makes me so happy." I'm like, "Yeah, we grew up in West Valley. People thought we'd get nowhere. But you all are doing big things." Like, it makes me really happy.

So, about a year ago, anyone I didn't know as a person, I deleted them off my social media and I just had my friends on there. Now, I'm beginning to add some people that really, I feel like, influenced me. There are a couple of people that write poetry, and since I'm so drawn to poems, I follow them. Or there are people I'm like, "Oh, I really like the way you think of things." I follow them, but not as much as I did before.

And I think, for me, the journey to either follow or unfollow someone is very much like . . . I don't know if I'm going to make that transition again where I unfollow people, but I have noticed that if I'm not stopping to see this picture and not stopping to read this post, why am I following them, right? And so, in that way, I kind of liked that you kept following this person. You know, you didn't like one post, but you know that that person's more than just one of their posts.

Either consciously or subconsciously, these people have a huge following, and they want that following. And with that following comes responsibility, right? And it's like you have the avenue to post things that people that don't have a lot of access to other forms of education. And so, I think it's really important that you're conscious of that.

And as far as our Instagram goes, I think that there have been a lot of times where I have thought or we have thought, "Should we post this? Should we not post this?" I think one thing we don't do and I actually . . . I don't know if I should have this conversation on the air. There are a lot of things that I support and I think we don't really post them on Instagram, like causes we care about, you know, things that really matter to us. And sometimes I'm okay with that because I have my own Instagram to do that if I need to. But sometimes I wonder, "Oh, should I post on this or that?"

I remember posting on holidays. Like when it was Diwali, I posted something. And then, it was [inaudible 00:14:59] last year, we posted something. I just want our followers to know that we're from these communities and if they ever feel like they need a connection for that, that we're there.

And I think our whole "Bundle of Hers" is about diverse experiences in medicine and that's, I think, what our "Bundle of Hers" showcases.

Margaux: Another thing I would just quickly add on to that question, too, Bushra, is that as consumers of social media, we be critical and aware of the motivations of what's being posted, because Instagram is a good way for advertisers to reach consumers. And a lot of those big follower people have advertising influence.

And so, for example, Kim Kardashian can earn up to, like, a million dollars for one post. And so think about the implication of making that like and what the actual influence of that post is. Is it authentic to that person and your value, or is it coming from, like, a marketing perspective?

Harjit: Right, because so many people are making money off posts or they're getting invited to go on trips, etc. And, yeah, there is that part and I think we all need to be conscious of that.

Bushra: One thing that I appreciate, and I guess this is more Twitter, is that you can get a lot of cutting edge new information from Twitter in an instant. Like, it's such a great tool. However, part of me thinks,"Should there be some sort of regulation behind that?" Because there's also a lot of bad things that come up on Twitter, a lot of hate groups that have access to Twitter, a lot of people who want to disseminate harmful things to other people on Twitter. And how do we kind of navigate that? Everybody has access to it. We can't . . . I don't know that there's a way to limit access. So, how do we reconcile those two things?

Harjit: I think this comes down to if you stop one group, you have to stop the other group, right? If you're limiting access to one type of speech, then you have to limit access to the other type of speech. And that comes with that whole conversation, I think, of freedom of speech. Like, what does that mean and to what lengths can that go?

I'm saying this because I really don't have an answer. That's such a hard question to answer because you're talking about Twitter, but you're talking about, like, the fundamental right of speaking your truth and speaking what you feel and your opinion, even if it has no backing to it, but it's your opinion, right? And I think that if you limit these hate groups, then people might want to be like, "Why not limit this extreme thought in, you know, the left/right situation?"

Bushra: It's not even left/right. Even, like, cyber bullying is rampant, you know? It's very harmful, especially in young kids in high school and middle school and stuff like that who go and verbally attack other students on social media. It has, like, huge implications.

Harjit: I think it would be really hard for me to deal with social media if I had it when I was younger. Granted, I grew up in a different generation. I can't believe I'm even saying different generation, but I didn't have Facebook until I was, like, 24. And I didn't have Instagram until I was . . . I had Instagram when I was 21, you know?

Margaux: I think, too, Bushra, that one of the fundamental problems of the issue that you bring up is that people will feel free to say anything behind the screen when they're not face to face. And I think one of the things that our generation had, fortunately, was time in elementary school and middle school, and whatever, high school, to have face-to-face fights and interactions, and to know how our words hurt and land on people. And I think that is such a necessary part of growing up, is learning that face-to-face interaction.

And so maybe now we need to be more mindful of making that a curriculum in school, of having face-to-face interactions, having no phone time, and having conversations face-to-face so that kids can learn how their words impact each other.

I think there are always going to be people who are going to say mean things in person or online. But if you can teach people to be resilient and have conversations and know how their own words affect people, or know how to approach a person if someone says something mean to you on Facebook, and that you can approach them in school or, like, "Hey, let's have an actual conversation about that." Because chances are . . .

Bushra: "Let's not fight online about this."

Margaux: Exactly.

Bushra: Have a civil discourse.

Margaux: When you can see their body language. And I feel like you're much more careful about your delivery of words in person because you see a human being in front of you. And most of us, even though we're heated and we have opinions that are disagreeing, see another human in front of us . . .

Harjit: We connect with that.

Margaux: . . . and don't want to, like, hurt that person at their core. Social media takes that away and has bred this whole platform for people to bully. And I think a lot of those people have their own issues that need to be, you know, dealt with and handled and talked to in person. It's probably the real issue is that no one's talking to them in person.

Harjit: Social media's great for, like, reaching people you thought you could never reach or hearing news that you thought you could never hear. But you're right. It kind of . . . that connection, that human connection is lost, you know?

Margaux: And how often do you write something on social media and then actually, like, reflect on what you just said and the implication of it?

Bushra: Oh, my God. Finish what you're saying.

Margaux: How often do you reflect on something that you write on social media, think about the implications of it, think about who is seeing it, how it's impacting them? We're on our phones all the time, like, Instagraming, liking things. How does that impact the world and what we do, and people that see us, or our words? Like, how often do we think about that?

People can say something because they feel heated in the moment. That's the first thing that comes to their mind. And then they don't think about it or you don't have to think about it. You're not held accountable because nobody knows who you are. And then, you can go on with your life.

Harjit: And that's irresponsible. It's almost like driving without your seatbelt. I swear it is. Because, you know, I will say one thing that I was very conscious of when I got social media. I'm so happy you said this, Margaux, because I actually think about every sentence I write on social media.

Margaux: Bushra says no.

Bushra: I wish I did because recently . . . you know how when someone comments on a post that was a long time ago you get a notification or whatever? So I got a random notification on Facebook and I clicked on it. I was like, "Oh, I haven't spoken to this person in forever." I click on it and it was just like some posts that he had. And then my comment under the post was so appalling. I didn't even recognize . . . I was so embarrassed that I had said it. I'm not even going to repeat what I said.

Harjit: Wait. You didn't even recognize that you said it? It just came out?

Bushra: Yeah. It was just there and my name was attached to it. And I was all like . . . and this was in high school.

Harjit: Who is she?

Bushra: I can't believe that I posted that for the world to see, essentially, because it's on a public forum and I didn't think twice about it. But people do that all the time. I wrote on there. I was like, "I can't believe I posted that and I'm so happy that I'm a much better human being now to recognize that that was, like, a terrible thing to say." It was bad. I was so embarrassed. And I was like, "I am so sorry. I can't believe I said that."

Harjit: That's amazing that . . . you know what though, Bushra? This is why we're friends, because you recognize that it was a shitty thing to say and you actually know . . .

Bushra: Yeah, it was bad. What is there out there that I wrote that I don't realize I wrote, you know?

Harjit: But no one would have noticed it. But you took the time and were like, "I can't believe I wrote this in the past." So I think you should give yourself credit for doing that.

Margaux: Yeah, 100%.

Bushra: High school me was, like, not woke at all.

Harjit: We were different people.

Bushra: We were asleep.

Margaux: It's okay if we were asleep.

Harjit: We're growing.

Bushra: Anyway, it's like what else is out there though, seriously? Like, in high school, I was on Facebook all the time. What else is out there that I wrote, you know? Nowadays, I'm much more aware of the things that I put out there and I'm much more thoughtful about the things that I post. But before, I didn't have that sort of discretion at all.

Margaux: That's interesting and a good journey, and self-reflection, and just realizing that, like you said, your name is attached to that and anyone can see that, and even your future employers, residency interviewers. That's out there for anyone. And even if it was in high school, someone could read it and misinterpret it. Even if you now recognize that that wasn't the right thing to say, but like you said, you don't know what else is out there. So it's kind of interesting in that way, that if you're not mindful, sometimes it could come back to bite you in the butt.

Bushra: And bite you in the butt.

Harjit: Yeah, because it's almost like . . .

Bushra: Well, my prefrontal cortex was not developed at that point.

Harjit: I know. Actually, that is true, and that's what you need to remember. I think we need to remember that everything has context, right? Things don't stand alone in this world. You go and gravitate to see things that you want to see. People write on their Instagram or post things on their Instagram they want the world to see.

And one vision, I think, we all carry is we want to be very conscious and intentional of all the information that we put out. And I think this podcast has really helped us develop that. I think that at least what we try to do is stay authentic, but I think it's very important to remember that we all can make mistakes. We're humans, you know? And also, give those people that you didn't like their one post, give them that benefit of doubt as well.

Bushra: Benefit of doubt, that's my whole thing.

Harjit: Yeah. That is your whole thing.

Bushra: I say that all the time.

Harjit: One thing that we've been saying since Day 1, even when we started this podcast, an idea was given to us. And I remember when we went into our producer meeting, we said, "We are so excited to be a part of 'Bundle of Hers.' We're so excited to do this podcast. And our only condition is that everything is authentic. Like, we won't talk about something we don't want to talk about."

The reason why I felt so comfortable working with our producers and working with "The Scope" is because they honored that and they respected it so deeply that it really touches my heart that these people are invested in us and our voice.

And I think with the "Bundle of Hers" Instagram account, that was the same thought process. Because I remember we had a conversation about it. I believe that if you just are authentic and people follow you, they follow you. If they don't, they don't. I don't think we've ever chased numbers. I mean, sometimes it gets big and you're like, "Oh, that's amazing." You know, obviously, we think our message is important. That's why we're saying it to the world, and we want people to appreciate that, but it's so important to stay authentic.

And I will say "Bundle of Hers" has done one thing for me, and that was, before, I was very, very, very critical about every picture that I had, every way that I looked. But on the "Bundle of Hers," I feel so comfortable posting anything. If it has a group of people that I'm like, "Oh, my God. This picture has to go on, but I don't look so good," that's okay because I just am so happy that this moment happened and I want to share it with the world. Or I'm not happy this moment happened and I want to share that with the world, right?

I'm proud of this podcast. I'm proud of our social media influence, too, because I think that even if on my own personal account I edit pictures, on the "Bundle of Hers," I feel like I'm more authentic.

Bushra: I think for the"Bundle of Hers" Instagram account, there are a couple of things at play because we represent a lot of people. We represent "The Scope." We represent The University of Utah School of Medicine. But I think, most of all, we represent ourselves and that's what we want to kind of portray, you know? The good, the bad, and the in-between, I'll say, and we'll continue to do so.

And so, with that being said, if you don't already follow the "Bundle of Hers," I would urge you to go ahead and look us up on Instagram and give us a follow.

Margaux: And on that note, too, I would just say one of the most meaningful things that I found from our "Bundle of Hers" Instagram are the wonderful messages we get from our listeners. So please, if you have anything . . .

Harjit: I know. They're so beautiful.

Margaux: Yeah. If you have anything to say, share, or continue the conversation, we're always open. We may not respond right away, but we really enjoy hearing what you have to think and how our podcast has impacted you either in a good way or a bad way.

Harjit: I think it's really important just for other people, too. I want everyone to know that everything we post, we usually get permission from all the people that are on the post. It's very important to actively practice consent. And I think it's very important to let people know that, you know, "You're in this and this is going to go on a public platform. Are you okay with it?" And I would just encourage our followers to kind of think on that thought. And if they think that's an important thought, that they should also maybe do that as well.

Bushra: Well, that was a wonderful conversation. And let's continue the conversation. Go ahead and reach out to us if you have anything to add. Thank you for listening and until next time, bye-bye.

Harjit: It's been so long since we heard that. So long.

Margaux: We've all tried to say . . .

Harjit: We all try to imitate you.

Margaux: We all tried and failed.