S6 Extra: Embracing Change—The Art of Letting Go

Margaux: Harjit, you know how in the template for the psych eval where under anxiety there's a button that says "has extreme difficulty with changes or transitions in day-to-day activities"? And I never really met anyone who had clicked that before until today for myself when we had this podcast scheduled and I had a therapy session earlier, and then my grandma got sick, and I'm taking care of her while my parents are out of town. I had to take her to a doctor's appointment, which is fine. I'm happy to do that. But the fact that I had to completely shift around my whole afternoon totally dysregulated me. So now I know.

Harjit: I know, because you're a planner.

Margaux: Yes. So now I know who that button is for.

Harjit: It's for you.

Margaux: People like me.

Harjit: For you, Margaux.

Margaux: Yes. Anyway, now you can take it away, Harjit.

Harjit: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to "Bundle of Hers." This is Harjit, and in the studio, virtual studio, we have Margaux and Leen.

Leen: What's up?

Margaux: Hey. Whoop-whoop.

Harjit: It's the OG crew. The one and only.

Margaux: Minus Bushra.

Leen: Minus Bushra.

Harjit: Yeah, minus Bushra. We miss you, Bushra. This is a bittersweet episode for the three of us because it is also an episode where we will express gratitude for what "Bundle of Hers" has done for our trajectory as humans. And also, it is our last episode with the series "Bundle of Hers." I'm really grateful that we have all of us here, the OG crew, that is ready to kind of let go and move forward. But I kind of wanted to reflect on this moment and why it feels bittersweet.

When I was thinking about this episode, I really was like, "There's so much to say about what 'Bundle of Hers' has done for myself, what this podcast has meant to us."

So the biggest reason that this podcast was formed was through community. Our producers heard us talking about things that mattered and no one else was talking about, and that's basically the inception of this podcast. It's here for underrepresented stories, underrepresented narratives.

And through this podcast personally, I've developed as a storyteller. It's something that I never knew I was passionate about until I started doing it. So in that way, "Bundle of Hers" has been very transformative for my journey as someone who likes to share stories. And I think it's a passion that is going to stay connected to me for a very long time.

But Margaux and Leen, what do you think? What has "Bundle of Hers" done for you?

Margaux: So I also share the sentiment that this is a very bittersweet moment, and thinking back about when "Bundle of Hers" started is so nostalgic. Not only chronologically. We were so young. We were second-year medical students. And just thinking back to that stage in my life seems so distant, and how much I've grown since then is huge. It's kind of fun to look at.

But like you, Harjit, I do find such power in this community and I am so glad that this space exists for the storytelling. And for me as an introvert, that was something I really struggled with, was to find comfort and to find space for my voice or to listen to other stories.

And that part, being an introvert, was more where I was comfortable, but finding the stories that mattered and that needed to be heard, this podcast has given that a lot of space. I've really found how cool and powerful it can be when you give power to other people's voices, that we can all grow together.

And like you, I also grew my voice as a storyteller. I very much love to hear and seek out other people's stories or narratives, but I never really shared my own. I think that's something I've really been able to develop as a skill, is being able to create relational storytelling through being on this podcast.

Harjit: I think it's so great that you say that, Margaux, because even as a friend, I feel like we've all developed and grown a lot through this podcast. It's forced us to have conversations, especially as working women together, about teamwork and leadership.

I love that word you say, relational narratives and relational storytelling, and how it's based on kind of one or two communities rather than just an individual. So thanks for sharing that.

What about you, Leen? What do you think you've taken away from being a part of this podcast?

Leen: I mean, it's definitely kind of been my, I want to say, rant zone. I was able to kind of take all those thoughts that were overwhelming in my head and things that I questioned, things that I was like, "Why is the world like this?" and bring it out and get your guys' opinion on it and be able to talk about it and these kind of things.

Lots of people come up to me and are like, "Oh my god, you're on a podcast. What's your podcast about?" And the way I describe it is kind of the way it started. Me, you, Margaux, Bushra, we were just ranting in the library and The Scope was like, "We overheard your conversations too. We want you to move it in here."

And I think from there, we just . . . If there was a topic, we might have not been the experts in the topic, but we definitely felt that there was a need for this topic to be introduced out into the world and given a space for it. We started introducing these topics, talking about them, bringing on guests.

And I think this space has introduced so many topics. It's developed my vocabulary for all the things out there that I've never truly had words for that I know bothered me. You know what I mean? Things that I saw and I just didn't have words for. And so now I get where to put that in. In a vocal kind of way, I know how to say it and how to explain it.

I feel like now it's helped me develop a way to have those conversations with people, to bring up these ideas, these things I see. I don't know. I would say it really kind of formulated myself as a person to be such a vocal person.

Harjit: I think, Leen, that's something we can all relate to. This was a place where we ranted and kind of a therapeutic outlet for all four of us, and then when it was all six of us.

And I think that was what was so transformative about this podcast. It gave us as much as we put into it. And I think it's really rare to have things that are kind of reciprocal in that way, but I felt like we were able to create this really symbiotic relationship with this podcast, right? It was an extension of our voices.

I used the word bittersweet when I was talking about this farewell episode, and I kind of wanted to get into our understandings of why we choose to let go, move in a different direction. What does that feel like?

Leen, I'm going to bring you up. You were like, "Oh my god, it's so sad. This podcast is . . . this era is ending." But I wanted to talk a little bit about that, the concept of letting go or moving to a different direction. I wouldn't even say moving forward. What are y'all's thoughts on that?

Margaux: Change is hard, period. It's part of the human condition. We just don't do well with change and it's really hard to navigate. I think that's a big part of it. But there's a lot to be said and a lot of power in intentionally letting something go. And that can be whether it's not helping you anymore, or whether you've transformed and learned from that and it's no longer as beneficial to you and there are other learning opportunities or things that you may need.

We only have a finite time on earth, right? In a global sense, but even just as residents and medical trainees, we have such little time to do what is valuable to us.

And so, for me, the letting go . . . it was really difficult to make the decision to stop being on "Bundle of Hers" because it had been such a big part of my life for the last seven years. Seven? Six years. Which is amazing. But now my life has changed, as we do in our lives. I'm a parent now, and as I progressed through residency, I just was finding a lot less time on my plate to do the things that were either required of me by the residency program and that I wanted to intentionally do and engage in as a parent and as a partner.

Naturally my life has shifted, and so I had to make that choice. I was having a lot of internal dissonance, and at some point when you're feeling that, the healthy thing to do is see what you can cut out or let go of, as you're saying.

I think there can be power in it and it's okay to accept that it's going to be hard, that it's sad. You may not always want to let go of it, but sometimes it needs to happen and it can be good down the road.

Leen: I think as I've gone through "Bundle of Hers" through the residency part of my life, I realized a lot of these spaces and a lot of these topics that we needed space for really resonated more with my medical school experience than my residency experience.

Not saying that they're invalid or that they were incorrect during that time and I've changed, but I think that it's a whole different experience. It's a whole different way of implementing these issues that we face.

It's very education system based. You have a whole different set-up in medical school, and now you're actually engaged in the real world. You're with patients. You're in the medical system, per se, whether you're a cog in the wheel or moving on trying to build your career.

And I realize a lot of the topics that we've discussed definitely continue to extrapolate into the bigger world, but we start seeing many more angles of it, and we start seeing it in a different way, and we start understanding new things.

And the world is changing, right? If things were the same, then we wouldn't be giving "Bundle of Hers" what it deserves. "Bundle of Hers" is meant to bring the voices that are out there that are not heard, and that usually comes from change, right?

I want to keep this platform for those who are within the medical school environment, who are in the educational environment and healthcare, versus the actual now clinical work environment of healthcare.

I think that might deserve a podcast of its own, right? There are things we encounter that I'm like, "Wow, med students should be aware of this." But this is a whole different beast, right?

Margaux: Yeah.

Leen: I think that's the toughest part for me, because I know these topics are so important and I want to keep talking about them. And I find such joy when people come up to me and they're like, "Oh my gosh, you're on a podcast. What are you about? You're giving underrepresented voices? I love this topic," or, "We see your messages on Instagram."

And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, we're bringing light to these topics or we're actually giving substance to these topics that nobody wants to talk about." And now people are able to grasp onto that substance and say, "Look, it's there. Let's talk about it." That's so valuable to me. If anything, that's all I wanted from "Bundle of Hers."

So it is very tough for me to step away from this, but I feel like even though we're stepping away from "Bundle of Hers" itself, I feel like our passion for wanting to bring out the inconsistencies in the system, fallacies, and all these things that we're like, "What the hell is going on?" is still truly within us. That started even before "Bundle of Hers."

Harjit: I asked this question because on this episode I really wanted us to, again, have another topic that we discuss and we see through our lens.

When I think about letting go, I think Margaux and Leen both hit basically the nail on the head. This platform was created to uplift voices, and that doesn't mean that the people who originally start something stay there, right? That's what we think about when we think about sustainability. When we think about active action, it's actually putting into place things that can exist with or without us, that they're not dependent on a human being.

So I think this is kind of a natural progression of the advocacy that I know that I have, I know that Margaux and Leen have, because we're all close and I know we have the same values in that way.

But I think when I was thinking about this, yeah, it made me sad, because in a sense we co-created this podcast with our producers. And I feel like because you create something doesn't mean you own something, right? This is really us putting that into action, that things need to be sustainable and exist with or without you.

What our goal has always been is to create a community and a platform. And that's why I think it's so important that we have new voices and, like Leen said, different voices, right? Different voices, different identities. All of these things are really important to continue pushing the edges of what we've started.

And I think that happens and things only continue to progress if they change. I think a combination, again, of what Leen said, but also what Margaux said about our capacity and our ability.

One thing Leen touched on that I was thinking a lot about as well is the idea of recognition and how that has impacted us. Yeah, I've just been thinking about that a lot too and how that recognition has shaped me and kind of gave me the empowerment or the encouragement that I felt like I needed at a lot of moments.

Margaux, you had a thought?

Margaux: Yeah. I think in the vein you're talking about of legacy and letting go, letting go doesn't mean that you're dropping it and walking away forever, right? We grew from it and it had grown from us in this sort of reciprocal way. And sometimes in order for things to grow bigger and better and benefit more people, you have to step back from your position to make space and room for other people to engage and share.

Like Leen was saying, this podcast was really helpful for us as medical students to sort of vent and explore what we were navigating. And it was so great this past couple seasons to have more med students on board. I think that was really what we all decided was the value of "Bundle of Hers," was to give back to medical students and keep it going as a medical student voice.

So for me, stepping back and letting go is a beautiful thing because I'm still going to very much be involved. I'm going to be listening to all the episodes and we're going to be in a mentor kind of role if they need advice or whatever, but it'll be so fun to see where the next group of people takes it. I'm just looking forward to that.

And the recognition I think is when you hear someone talk about "Bundle of Hers," even if we're not part of that season, I think I will still feel that light in my heart, like, "I was part of this and I am so glad that it's continuing and people are still connecting with it."

Harjit: Definitely.

Leen: If anything, "Bundle of Hers" forced me to learn how to take pictures, as my camera is off during this virtual recording.

Harjit: I was going to say I guess on a lighter note, "Bundle of Hers" forced me to not talk over people.

Margaux: But you just did.

Leen: You literally just interrupted me. It's okay. We're still working on it.

Harjit: I can't stop doing it. I mean, listen, I practiced. If I did it at 100%, at least I'm at 90% now, okay?

Margaux: This is true.

Leen: Oh my god.

Margaux: What were you going to say, Leen?

Leen: I totally don't even remember. Oh, I was going to say I got a free mic out of this. Microphones are my favorite thing.

You know what my biggest feedback in medicine is? Now that we're talking about "Bundle of Hers" and the way it's made us a little more eloquent, my biggest feedback on every shift is, "Leen, you make no sense. Put your thoughts together." And I'm thinking here as I'm sitting here talking on "Bundle of Hers," I'm like, "Why am I able to put my thoughts together on this, but in real life I'm such a jumbled mess?"

Margaux: Maybe you're not the mess. It's the person listening to you that's the mess.

Leen: Maybe, yeah. Let's just put it all back there. Screw growth. Let's just say it's everyone else's problem.

Margaux: Exactly.

Leen: Oh my gosh. But I think honestly, Season 1 shows how much we've . . . Have you guys listened to any of the episodes from Season 1 yet?

Margaux: I haven't gone back in a long time to listen, but I think that would be really fun.

Leen: We had such funny things going on. We grew a lot.

Margaux: We did.

Harjit: We did. But I have gone back and listened to the episodes because sometimes when I miss you all, I listen to the episodes.

Margaux: Aw.

Harjit: It reminds me of like, "Oh, they're still here," because I'm still in Utah. It had some other type of flair to it.

Margaux: It's authentic.

Harjit: Yeah. We had some authenticity. Like you said, Margaux, it was very authentic and we were going in just kind of as we were. I think they're really refreshing to listen to.

And that's another reason why I'm so grateful for this podcast, is because we have this running journal, a voice journal of our experiences and our thoughts and how we've grown as people.

There have even been moments where I've listened back and I was like, "I can't believe I said that I've grown a lot in that area." So there are a lot of places and phases of growth that I think about too.

On this thought of gratitude, one thing I really wanted to talk about in this episode of farewell was how important our producers have been in making this podcast. I feel like we never have really taken out that opportunity to talk about the work that our producers do to not only give us these opportunities, but allow us to be presented in the ways that we want to be presented.

I will say that this is one of the only projects in my life where I feel like I could be fully authentic and show up authentically, and my feedback has mattered. So I just wanted to shout out to the University of Utah, The Scope, and our producer, Chloe Nguyen. We also have Scot and Mitch who help out with this as well. So I just wanted to really express that gratitude.

And I'm saying it right now, Chloe, you better not cut this out of this podcast. But I think it's really important to express that gratitude as well.

Margaux, you had a thought?

Margaux: I think it's so amazing that we acknowledge all the work behind the scenes that our listeners have never . . . Maybe they have heard Chloe a snip or two here and there, but she's worked so hard. And like Harjit said, she really works to make sure our voices, our thoughts, and how we want this podcast to be are represented.

And I also would like to express deep gratitude to you especially, Chloe, and to the whole Scope team who has really believed in us from the beginning, from that inception in the library, that little table we were sitting at in front of The Scope Radio, and that you just took a chance on us.

And I know, Chloe, it was really . . . You were not in a place or wanting to work with med students, and rightfully so. It hadn't worked out in the past. But I'm glad you took a chance on us.

Leen: Honestly, that's probably why we sound good, now that I'm thinking about it.

Margaux: It's all Chloe actually.

Leen: We just need Chloe in real life to sit there and just edit everything that comes out of our mouth. She's the reason we sound at least put together.

Margaux: Yeah.

Harjit: Are there any closing thoughts you all had that you wanted to share before we sign off?

Margaux: Keep listening to "Bundle of Hers" because it's going to just be even more amazing. Yeah, that's all.

Leen: Yeah, honestly, because at the end of the day, we created this platform for these spaces, but the space does not grow unless we have listeners who are willing to listen in, chime in, give us their opinions, give us their thoughts, give us their experience of being on a platform of themselves not being represented. I mean, this doesn't happen without everybody else.

Margaux: So true. Shout out and deep gratitude to our listeners because you do make "Bundle of Hers." While our elder millennial social media skills are not the greatest, and we try, we really know through interactions that we do have a larger "Bundle of Hers" community, and that means a lot too.

Harjit: I just want to reiterate everything Margaux and Leen have already said and kind of end this episode on that note. We're deeply grateful for everybody who makes this podcast possible, our guests, our own voices, each other, our producers, our listeners . . .

Margaux: Our new Bundlers.

Harjit: Our new Bundlers, yes. It's really a place where I think we wanted to kind of start that consciousness of critical thinking. It's also a place where we always encourage everybody to use their voices.

I just feel really deeply grateful that I was a part of this and I was able to grow through this, and I know Leen and Margaux have the same feelings.

With that, please continue to listen to "Bundle of Hers." You can find us at any podcasting platforms @bundleofhers. Please share your thoughts. We want to hear your voice. You all make this community possible.

Margaux: Truth.

Harjit: Okay. Well, bye-bye.

Leen: Oh my god. Someone else do this.

Harjit: I don't know how to do farewells. This is so awkward.

Margaux: Here, I'll do it. Our next season, the next season . . . Maybe it's ours too. I don't know. In my heart, it will be ours. The next season of "Bundle of Hers" is going to be probably even better, because with our new voices in the last two years, that has been exponentially . . . God, now I'm just rambling.

Leen: I mean, one thing we still haven't perfected is endings.

Margaux: It's true. It's because letting go is hard. Keep listening to "Bundle of Hers" because it's going to be freaking lit. And our new Bundlers are amazing. Until next time, bye-bye.