Scot: I don't know how you feel about having a woman in here while we're . . .
Troy: The men's health podcast. This is tough.
Chloe: Would it make you feel better if I leave?
Scot: No, you can stay. You can stay. She's probably just going to get up and leave anyway.
Troy: Yes, like, "I'm bored already. I'm bored."
Scot: Who cares about men's health? Well, we say men care about men's health. That's what we were trying to prove here on this podcast. I'm Scot Singpiel, and I care about men's health. I'm the senior producer of "The Scope Radio."
Troy: I'm Dr. Troy Madsen. I'm an emergency physician at University of Utah Health, and I care about men's health.
Kevin: And I'm Kevin Curtis. I'm a licensed clinical social worker and the director of Crisis Services at UNI, and I care about men's health.
Scot: We look at some of the core topics we talk about on the show, Dr. Madsen, or I'll call you Troy. I keep calling you Dr. Madsen. You keep telling me to call you Troy. I'll get that right eventually.
Scot: Activity, nutrition, how do you manage your stress, sleep? You know, how are you handling smoking and drinking? Hopefully, you're not doing any of that and making health issues. So managing stress, big part of staying mentally healthy, is it a bigger part of mental health? Well, that's one of the things want to find out from Kevin Curtis.
First of all, how do you guys manage stress? Dr. Madsen, we've talked a little bit about you have a very stressful job. What do you do to kind of manage that?
Troy: Well, I know anyone who listens to this podcast is probably tired of hearing me talk about running. But it works for me.
Scot: Exercise, yeah.
Troy: Yeah, I mean exercise. I run every day. I run 30 minutes every day then I do a long run once a week. That, to me, I'd say, it's my antidepressant. It's my anti-anxiety medication. I mean, it's what keeps me sane, you know, in the midst of a lot of stress in work and a lot of difficult things I see. It allows me time to process a lot of those things. Sometimes I'll just have something that's on my mind that I just can't get off my mind. I go out and run. I just seem to work it out, so . . .
Scot: You run away from it.
Troy: I run away from it.
Scot: In a good way.
Troy: I run away from my problems. So that seems to work.
Kevin: Yeah. I would agree that exercise is the key to my mental health. So having a scheduled routine, making sure I do that as a daily part of my day. It doesn't have to be a big thing. But daily physical activity can be meditative and it really makes a big difference for me in terms of how I feel.
Scot: Yeah. I think activity on this list is just one of the most important things because it affects so many aspects of our health. Activity is one of the ways I do it. I start getting anxious if I don't exercise, and also what I eat, I noticed. I love to drink beer. And if I have a few too many beers, the next day, I find myself being very anxious and just not focused. And I don't like that. And I consider that part of my mental well-being. So, just kind of watching what I eat and what I drink, and what I consume. So, that's how I do it. What is mental health, Kevin Curtis? I mean, that's kind of a term that's thrown around a lot, right? But, like, what is it really?
Kevin: Right. So, I mean, if you think of the analog of physical health, you're talking about so many different things, right? You're talking about your muscles. You're talking about your internal organs. You're talking about all of these different systems that work together. When we talk about mental health or, at least, when I talk about mental health, I'm talking about the state of our thoughts and the state of our emotions, and making sure that we're taking care of that. And so that's what I'm thinking about. Are we having thoughts that are useful to us? Are we having thoughts that impact our ability to function in life? And is our emotional state supportive of us, you know, meeting our goals or is it a barrier to doing the things that we want to do in life?
Scot: Yeah. Just like as our physical body able to meet the goals we want to meet. For some people, it's playing with their kids. For some people, it's socializing.
Troy: And it's a lot tougher. I mean, obviously, our physical body changes become very obvious to us sometimes when we look in the mirror. But mental health, not so obvious sometimes.
Kevin: No, it's really not. You could present as "I've got everything together" and be a complete and total mess inside, right? So external presentation isn't necessarily a good indicator of where we're at with our mental health.
Troy: It's a good point. Yeah, it's a lot easier to fake it to know what I need to do to get through the day at work and to function in that setting. But, like you said, on the inside, we could just really be a mess.
Kevin: Right. Well, and there are strong taboos to keep us doing that, right? Like, it's not something that most people have a ton of shame or embarrassment about if they have diabetes or if they have, you know, some sort of heart condition that they take medication for. But for people that are struggling with troubling thoughts or troubling mood states, there are lots of reasons why somebody wouldn't necessarily want to let other people know that that's going on.
Scot: Like, for me, I don't talk about stuff like that because I'm, like, "Who really cares?" Like, nobody cares about my problems or my thoughts, right?
Troy: But you're right. I mean, I don't know how many times I've told the story about hurting my hamstring and how much sympathy I get for this. But, you know, how often do we really want to talk about, you know, our mood and how we're feeling? Maybe sometimes we're willing to open up about those things, but it is sort of taboo.
Scot: Is that a man thing or is that a people thing? Is it equally men and women?
Kevin: I would not say that it's equally men and women. I think that there's a generalized taboo that keeps all of us from talking about mental health. But particularly, we are . . . our culture reinforces that this is not something that men do. Men do not show emotion other than anger. That's socially acceptable to show anger, right? But we don't have a lot of social reinforcers for sharing our thoughts and feelings.
Troy: Yeah, this is kind of a fascinating thing to me because, you're right, it's such a thing in our society that we don't talk about it. But I love history and I studied history as an undergrad and I just continue to love to read about history. But I've read about Alexander the Great. And when his horse died, he didn't come out of his tent for a week. And it was just this is [inaudible 00:05:46].
Scot: This is Alexander the Great.
Kevin: Alexander the Great, you know?
Troy: He faced so much emotion. And at that time, that was acceptable and those demonstrations of emotion were far more acceptable, I think, in many times in history than they are today.
Kevin: Sure, yeah. The modern analog is, I think, that men can express, you know, their emotions related to sport, right? That's one little area, you know, where they can be in the presence of other men and express their emotion in a pretty open way.
Troy: Yeah. I'll bet.
Kevin: But it's not very common in other areas of life that men feel, generally speaking, able to talk about what's going on with them.
Scot: I hope I don't get in the weeds with this, but this is cultural thing that we talk about then affect individual men's ability to even help another man, to even process it. Like, if I was to start talking about my mental health issues with another man, like, would they even know what to do?
Kevin: That's a great question. I don't think that's in the weeds at all. I mean, I recently had an experience with a friend that had lost a job. And as a mental health professional, going to that person to ask, "How are you doing?" was a really challenging thing for me because I wasn't . . . it was kind of changing the nature of our relationship a little bit, right, because that was not a part of our common language to talk about how are you doing, right?
Troy: And maybe that's a big part if. We're afraid of what we're going to find out if we start asking people, and we won't know what to do about it, you know, or maybe we're afraid of what it's going to bring up in ourselves and what we're going to say.
Scot: Man, my head hurts just trying to process this right now. Just from the standpoint of what we're just talking about, like, we've . . . and then, I'm trying to think back to my personal experience, "Well, why wouldn't I share this with somebody that I consider a close friend?" Well, maybe it's not because who cares. Maybe it's because I don't feel, like, I'm getting anything back from them that is helpful. So why do that?
Kevin: You know, that's a possibility, but I guess you never know if you try, right? So maybe you can be the test case for that and come back to us and tell us how it works. But, yeah, there are really strong taboos around talking about this sort of stuff among men.
Scot: All right. Well back to the conversation about staying mentally healthy, like, what are some things we can do? And I'd imagine talking to people about it. It's going to be one of them and that might merit a whole episode on its own on how to be a good listener or how to bring it up with somebody, or how to help that person help you. I mean, I don't know.
Kevin: Yeah. So I think about . . . if you think from a standpoint of, "What am I willing to give in return for somebody else that would be in this situation?" I think that we've all been in situations where we've given support, where in other situation similar, we would never be the ones to take the support, if that makes sense. So, you know, I'll listen to 20 people tell me about the things that they're going through before I feel comfortable sharing what I'm going through, right?
Scot: That's just what you do.
Kevin: And it's what I do. So, if I can't quite figure it out all the time, how is anybody else supposed to, right? But it's really just about practice. It's about being brave, right? You know, maybe that's something that we need to talk more about, is that it's not a sign of weakness to be vulnerable like this. But it's actually a sign of bravery to open yourself up and kind of lay bare the things that you're not super proud of or that you're struggling with, or that sort of thing.
Troy: I think one challenge too, I think, you know, my mindset and I think probably most men, we want to fix things. If I hear problems, I want to fix it.
Scot: Absolutely. And I can't tell you how many times I've gone around circles with women in my life over this because that's not what they want.
Troy: Yeah. People have probably seen it, this YouTube video. My wife showed it to me. It was hilarious. It's a woman that has a nail in her forehead. She's talking to her significant other saying to him, "I just hurt right here. It is bothering me right here." And he's just trying to say, "Well, why don't you just pull it?" "No. Why do you always want to fix the problem?" I mean, that's a . . . If you haven't seen it, it's hilarious, but . . .
Kevin: I'm fairly certain a man made that video.
Troy: Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it was fun. We both laughed a lot over it. But I think we do want to fix things and maybe that's why we have a hard time really bringing up these conversations because we don't know how to fix it. But it sounds like, like you said, a lot of times it's just about listening and it's cliché, but just maybe just being a good listener.
Kevin: Yeah. I think that that's right.
Scot: Let's get back to talking about, you know, staying mentally healthy. We've kind of learned what is mental health. What are some techniques that we can do that doesn't involve talking to other people, which we'll explore later, that, you know, would help?
Kevin: Sure. So, again, I think that our physical health is a good analog to this. What are the things that you do to keep your body healthy? And it's not too different for keeping your mind healthy, right? So we talk a lot about the importance of good routine. We talk about managing your hygiene, making sure that you're getting up every day. You're doing some sort of physical activity. You're showering. You're putting on clean clothes. You're, you know, putting good things into your body. Just developing good, healthy routines does so much for your mental health.
Scot: I can agree with that from personal experience, absolutely, yeah. So physical health does definitely lead to mental health. What about mindfulness? You hear about that a lot or meditation, those sort of things?
Kevin: Sure. Yeah, that is certainly one of the areas that we focus on in therapy, is developing mindfulness practice. And really, what that's about is detaching your thoughts from the emotion connected to the thoughts, right? So it's about creating a space where you're not thinking, where you're not feeling, where you're just present in the moment. And when you're doing that, you really begin to realize how much of your day-to-day functioning can be tied up in what came before or what's happening next, right? And that's really no way to live a life, where you're constantly stuck between this push and pull of the bad things that have happened and the bad things that are going to happen. So mindfulness practice can be a really great way to stay focused in what am I doing now that leads to the future that I want to have.
Troy: And do you find that sometimes there are things we do thinking we're encouraging positive mental health and helping our mental health, but they're actually counterproductive?
Kevin: I think in terms of spending . . .
Troy: Can I go buy this? This will be great. I'll be so happy here.
Scot: I have a feeling this was a leading question. That's something right there.
Troy: Well, I mean . . .
Kevin: With alcohol, I think we sometimes we used to, you know, it's, like, "Well, this . . ." you know.
Scot: I could absolutely say that I have things that I do to distract myself from the present moment or what I'm feeling or thinking and buying on Amazon, buying a gadget. You get that little whatever hit.
Kevin: It's so fulfilling to hit that, you know, Buy button.
Scot: It is. And then, two days later, you get the little gadget. But then that never leads to anything good, because a couple of days later, I'm, like, "Well, the fun of the gadget's gone. I've spent this money on this thing that no longer I enjoy."
Troy: Exactly. I mean, that's . . .
Scot: So now I'm right back where I am, if not worse.
Troy: I'm thinking even exercise. I mean, sometimes we can become sometimes just too compulsive about exercise and it can lead to stress. But it can be a great thing if it's balanced. But sometimes, we can go to the extreme.
Kevin: Sure if your whole life revolves around meeting that exercise schedule, what time do you have for anything else, right? I think what you were talking about before really falls into this broader category of self-medication, right? And when we hear that word, I think we often think about the self-medication that comes with alcohol, with drugs, with that sort of thing. But the reality is that we're all constantly self-medicating. Sometimes it's with food. Sometimes it's with spending money. Sometimes it's with sex. Sometimes it's with, you know, all these different things that in moderation can be really good and healthy things for us. But we're using them to avoid dealing with other things that are going in our life, right? It's that avoidance that really turns something that's good into something that's more of a self-medicating practice.
Scot: And the mindfulness I found helped me realize I was doing those things. Because if you're like, "Why am I buying something again? What am I experiencing right now that might cause that? Oh, I'm trying to avoid whatever," you know, and just really detaching yourself and going, "Huh, I feel anxious. I feel angry now. What could be causing that? Is it really anger? Is it something else?"
Troy: And it's an interesting point, too, that you make that sometimes we think we are helping our mental health by essentially distracting ourselves from the moment. But it's really, you know, those things, you know, we're going to a have to deal with the moment eventually and it's really bringing ourselves into the moment that, again, seems to really help our mental health. And those distractions can sometimes be detrimental.
Kevin: Right. It's kind of like running from the fire instead of putting out the fire. Yeah. The other thing that I would add is if you're not feeling mentally right, if you're feeling like things are not going well, you don't have to be in a point of crisis to start thinking. "Might it be helpful for me to engage some professional help?" You know, you don't have to wait until your arm falls off before you go to see a doctor, right? So, you know, it's that same thing. We've got to stop separating our physical health from our mental health, right?
So, when you start having those feelings and thoughts that things are just not going that great, it doesn't hurt to reach out and talk to somebody, you know. Maybe the solution is medication related, but more often than not, it's really about being able to talk to a professional. And, you know, we've already talked about this. It may not work to talk to one of your male friends, right? It may not work to talk to your spouse. But there's something magical that happens when you can talk to kind of a neutral party that's not invested in your life that can maybe help talk through what's going on and maybe get things on a better track before it gets really bad.
Scot: The thing I found with seeking help and here at University of Utah Health, we actually . . . I think, every year we get three free visits as part of our benefits package and a lot of companies have that. So look into that. Call the number on the back of your insurance card. See if your insurance benefits, you know, help you out.
But I just always looked at it is I'm dealing with something I've never dealt with before and I compare it to a home improvement project. If I'm retiling my bathroom and I don't know what I'm doing, I'm going to go do a little research on YouTube and I'm going to get the tools that help me do the job. And I look at somebody such as yourself, a licensed clinical social worker, as somebody who has some tools that can go, "All right, your father died, you know. This is common what you're feeling or not common, or tell me how you feel about it. Here are some tools now to help work through this." And there's no shame in that.
Kevin: Right. I think a big percentage of what a therapist does is just normalize what you're going through and help you understand this is just a part of the journey for all of us. We're all dealing with it in certain ways. And when you can start to feel the ups and downs are normal and that you don't have to . . . right. It's like being out in the ocean. The more you fight the waves, the more you go down. But when you learn to kind of roll with the waves, you're much better able to enjoy, you know, the process of being there.
Scot: More conversations later, guys?
Kevin: Sure.
Scot: Because we care about men's health.
Troy: We do.
Kevin: Sure do.
Why 10,000 Steps a Day?
Troy: Get 10,000 steps a day. I think we've all heard it, and Scot, you structure your life around it.
Scot: I do. Why you calling me out like this?
Troy: You know, I've heard your stories. I know the way you track things and the data you like to use and, you know, it seems like a pretty noble thing to do. I'm curious about this stuff.
Scot: All right. So my goal, I guess, is I'm trying to be more active, is to get 10,000 steps a day. So, at one point, I realized I was just sitting at work all day. I can get into this flow state and just forget to get up and move. So I decided I'm going to try to get 10,000 steps a day. And at first, I was just doing these massive walking sessions at the end of the day. I go home and taking an hour or 45 walk around the neighborhood, which is great. I enjoyed it. But, you know, it's a lot at one time.
So then, I figured out that if I get up every 10 minutes or if I get up every hour for 10 minutes, I can get about 1,000 steps. So, if I do that every hour throughout my 8-hour workday, I can knock out 8,000 of those steps before I even go home.
Troy: So you are 80% on the way to 10,000 steps.
Scot: I am 80% on the way. And it bugs me when I forget to do that and now I've these 10,000 steps that I have to take at the end of the day.
Troy: Yeah. But you figured out your route. Like you said, you've got it down to 1,000 steps. I assume there's some beaten path that you've made around the campus here.
Scot: I also looked up the information. The average brisk walking speed is 120 steps a minute.
Troy: Okay.
Scot: So, theoretically, in 10 minutes, you could get 1,200 of those steps. I don't necessarily walk quite that fast. So I'm averaging about 100, 110. And sometimes I stop and look around.
Troy: Sometimes you might lose a few steps here and there. But you've really structured at around 10,000. But this is kind of interesting to me because it sounds like a great thing. And obviously, you've thought about, "Okay, if I miss my walks, I've got to do an hour and 45 minutes at the end of the day to get my 10,000 steps," based on 1,000 steps per 10 minutes an hour and 40 minutes being a little bit of time to stop and look around.
Scot: Great summer heat.
Troy: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
Scot: You make me sound neurotic.
Troy: I wasn't trying to. But why 10,000? I mean, it seems like a noble goal, but it's kind of a random number it seems.
Scot: Well, I mean, I guess . . . I don't know. My Fitbit default, it says . . . I think it encourages me to get 10,000 a day. I think I've heard people say that that's a good number of steps to try to achieve a day. I would imagine there's some backing to that. You're going to tell me there's not, aren't you?
Troy: I think so. I'm going to tell you, there is some backing to it. You know what the backing to this number is? And this is interesting because I was just reading an article that talked about where this whole 10,000 step thing originated. Obviously, you structured your life around 10,000 steps to some degree, and a lot of people have. They're tracking this.
Scot: I can't handle what you're about to give me.
Troy: So this comes from, actually, a Japanese marketing campaign from 1965. When they sold a pedometer, something . . . it wasn't a Fitbit. This was not a high-tech stuff, but it's one of those things. Those old pedometers, they bounce every time you take a step and it has a counter. And they marketed it based on 10,000 steps a day. And this pedometer was supposed to help you to get those 10,000 steps in. And the idea was if you're getting 10,000 steps, you're going to be healthy.
Scot: Yeah. I'm not?
Troy: I'm not saying you're not. I guess the bigger point here though . . . so this all came up because there was a study that was done and they basically said, "Is there any validity to this whole 10,000 step rule?" This is sort of the gold standard. It's out there with this whole thing we hear like, eat breakfast every day and drink eight glasses of water a day. All these things we've heard and we've thought, "Wow, that's really sort of the model of health, is 10,000 steps a day."
So they took people and they said, "We're going to take people who aren't very active and we're just going to try and get them to do something, take 2,000 steps a day, take 4,000 steps a day." And they found that just doing that made a huge difference, and the health benefits really seem to level off at about 7,500 steps a day. So there's nothing magical about 10,000 steps a day. And I think the bigger point of this study was, you know, you don't need to feel like you needed to get . . . and so, that's basically five miles you're walking a day, which is really great.
Scot: Yeah, the 10,000, sure.
Troy: Yeah. But some people who aren't getting that probably think, "Okay, there is no way I can do that. I don't have the luxury of getting up every hour for 10 minutes or walking an hour and 45 minutes at the end of the day." I mean, let's face it. You work for the university. You can do this. Just kidding.
Scot: Yeah, I am . . . No. You know, you're right, I am pretty lucky. I mean, there are some people that are attached to a phone. And, you know, you get your 15-minute break every whatever and . . .
Troy: Yeah. They don't have the luxury of walking going out and walking that much.
Scot: I just sounded so out of touch right there, didn't I? Yeah.
Troy: Some people that don't work for the university have to sit at a desk all day. No, I'm just kidding. I work for the university, too, so I can joke about working for a university. But some people may live in neighborhoods where it's just not practical to go out on the street and walk, you know, for five miles just . . .
Scot: Yeah. And here in Salt Lake even, it's bizarre. There are neighborhoods that don't have sidewalks. I've lived in a neighborhood that's always had a sidewalk. But I was shocked to find a lot of them don't.
Troy: Some places don't or maybe it's just not enjoyable for you. Like, what's the point I'm going out and walking for five miles a day? Like, you know, it's just not practical. So, I think the point of this article was that there were health benefits when people were just taking 2,000 steps a day. And those health benefits increased when they took 4,000 steps a day. But they really sort of leveled off at about 7,500 steps. So what the science showed is that, you know, there's benefit. If you can just look where you are right now and say, "Okay, this is my activity level," and just try to increase it. Just try and increase from there. Don't feel like you have to do something heroic. You don't need to walk five miles or run long distances. I think just increasing from where you are, you're going to feel a difference.
Scot: All right. And I think it's also worth adding if you were trying to lose weight, then maybe that 7,500 steps maybe you need to go above and beyond that because you're trying to burn fat or whatnot. But we're talking just the health benefits to the body, 7,500 steps.
Troy: That's where it seemed to level off. But, again, I think the bigger point is just even 2,000 steps. So, even if you just took 2 of your 10-minute breaks a day . . . I'm not telling you to drop from 10,000, but . . .
Scot: It would make a huge difference.
Troy: It would make a huge difference. If someone's just sitting at a desk all day, get up twice a day, do a 10-minute walk. You're going to get benefits just from that.
ER or Not: I Cut Myself
Scot: All right, ER or not, that's where we throw out a scenario. And then, you decide whether or not you think you would have to go to the ER or not. Dr. Troy Madsen's going to answer the question for us. So today, real simple, you cut yourself. So, you know, I guess those are probably superficial cuts and I think we've all gotten those, right? And we know what to do with those. But I'm talking maybe you're in the kitchen cutting up a carrot or something, and you got a pretty deep cut in your hand or your finger. ER or not?
Troy: So, to answer this question, let me walk you through something I personally faced not too long ago. So this was me in, you know, my brilliant side. I was having some people over for a barbecue and I got a butter knife to try and split, you know, some frozen hamburgers apart. The knife slipped. With all that force, it hit me right in the middle of my hand. So immediately, you know, I looked at it and I've got a big laceration there.
But the big things I go through in my mind are, number one, are my tendons working? Is my hand closing? Are my fingers working? And then, I touched my fingers. Do I have sensation there? I did, so that's a good sign. So, if you're tendons are not working or you don't have sensation in your fingers or below wherever you hit yourself or cut yourself, that's absolutely a reason to go to the ER because you may need to see a surgeon. You may need to have the tendon repaired.
So number two thing I look at, I look at this wound in my hand. And is it a gaping wound? Does it pop open? Is it just going to keep opening and closing every time I move my hand? Answer is yes.
Scot: If you were to take a Sharpie and draw a couple of eyes above it, would it look like a mouth talking?
Troy: It would look like a mouth speaking, exactly.
Scot: And that's not good.
Troy: That's not a good sign.
Scot: It's a fun trick, but . . .
Troy: It is. It would be a great party trick at the barbecue or for years to come. But the problem is it's just not going to heal up well. So that kind of thing or lacerations over joints, that becomes concerning as well. Sometimes those can go really deep and actually involve the joint. So that's something you need to go to the ER for. But in this case, yeah, it was a gaping laceration. It was popping open, so it's something where I needed medical attention. Now, you don't need to go an ER for this if it's something where it just needs some sutures, which is what this needed. Go to an urgent care. They're going to get you in quickly. It's much less expensive. And they can absolutely handle this sort of thing.
Scot: Okay. Any other considerations here? I'm trying to think through. I guess, obviously, if it's bleeding badly, you better go to the ER.
Troy: For sure.
Scot: That's one of the major things you would go to the ER for beyond the cut, yeah.
Troy: Absolutely, anything that's spurting out, any arterial bleeding, yes. Put pressure on it. Don't try and put a tourniquet on your arm. That can sometimes cause more problems than good. But just hold pressure on that. Get to the ER for any severe bleeding.
Scot: So my takeaway is that if I'm looking at it and I have some sort of loss of feeling, then I'm going to the ER. If I look at it and I'm like, "Huh, is that thing going to heal up okay on its own, or is it going to need to be pulled together to heal up?" If it's going to need to be pulled together, then I can head to an urgent care and something like that.
Troy: Yeah. And even if you look at it and it looks like the wound is together, but you take it and you push on it, and it just pops apart, and it's coming apart, you know, maybe half an inch, that's something that probably needs a suture, you know. And then, some of these larger lacerations you look at, it'll say, "Okay, that's not good, you know. I need something to sew this all back together."
The other thing, of course, is cosmetic concerns. So, if it's on your face, you know, those types of things, even smaller lacerations there that maybe if it were on your arm we want suture closed. The face, you know, cosmetic concerns, we're going to suture that close with some really fine suture just to make sure it's staying close and healing up well.
Scot: And again, those sutures could be done at an urgent care.
Troy: Absolutely.
Scot: All right. So back to your story then. Based on what we've learned today, you went right to the urgent care and left all your barbecue guests back at your house, right?
Troy: You're right. I mean, I'm a great patient. I always follow my own advice. But actually, obviously, you know me too well. You know that I did not do that. I washed it out really well. And then, I grabbed a piece of ice and held it on there to numb it up. And then, I grabbed some suture because I have some suture around the house.
Scot: You did it yourself?
Troy: And then I sutured it closed myself. So I'm not recommending you do it at home. I have seen some people in the ER who have done home suture jobs with the thread and needle. Don't do it yourself. But trust me, I'm a doctor, it works.
Just Going to Leave This Here
Scot: Just going to leave this here. So our random thoughts might be related to health, it might not be related to health. Troy, what's your Just Going to Leave This Here for this episode?
Troy: Well, you know, I love sleep and I'm just going to leave this here. But I saw a study that said the optimal time to take a nap is 26 minutes, not longer, not shorter. This is based on research NASA did with their astronauts and showed if you're going to take a nap, make it 26 minutes.
Scot: Shaking my head. That's never worked for me.
Troy: You don't believe it?
Scot: No, because I'd heard 20 minutes, right, no longer? I sometimes feel, like, I was hit by a truck after 20 minutes.
Troy: After 20 minutes?
Scot: Yeah.
Troy: So you must be getting in a pretty deep sleep then. I mean, the whole point of this was that you don't get in such a deep sleep at that point that it becomes disruptive. That's interesting. So 20 minutes. So, for me, if I'm sleeping 26 minutes, you know, 30 minutes or less, I'm usually okay.
Scot: That works for you.
Troy: Seems once I get beyond that, once it pushes an hour or longer, then I wake up, I'm just groggy, you know, and I can't get to sleep at night. So you're not a believer in the science from NASA?
Scot: Well, I'll look . . .
Troy: You doubt our astronauts.
Scot: They're just a bunch of rocket scientists. What do they know? So 26 minutes. I will experiment with that.
Troy: Try it.
Scot: I will experiment with that.
Troy: Set your alarm 26 minutes. Set it for 30 minutes. It'll take you a few minutes to fall asleep, but . . .
Scot: That was a good one. Just going to leave this here, have you ever seen the movie "That Sugar Movie"?
Troy: I've not. "That Sugar Movie," huh?
Scot: So what it did was it was much like the documentary that followed the guy that ate McDonald's for 30 days. And what it did to his health except for this guy . . .
Troy: Ate sugar?
Scot: . . . changed his diet. And it wasn't that he was going out and now just eating candy bars. He was just eating . . . he used to eat nuts, seeds, a relatively healthy diet. So what happened was he ended up meeting this woman who is a vegetarian.
Troy: Oh, where it all goes bad.
Scot: His diet was terrible, pizza and stuff before that. And then, you know, he wants to impress her. So he started eating like her, right? Anyway, he just was . . . incorporated stuff, like, juice and yogurt, and stuff that is high in sugar and tracked what that did to his health. And it is shocking. And I would love to get an expert in here because you always hear calories are calories. This would indicate calories are not just created equal. They talked about from a physiological standpoint how the sugar affects the body, how it processes different types of sugar, which I didn't know. I mean, complex and simple carbs I knew that, but . . . and then, the effects it has on the body. It was shocking. He increased body fat even though his activity remained relatively the same, talked about how it impacted his mood in a negative way. So I . . .
Troy: Was he throwing up like the guy on "Super Size Me"?
Scot: No. He wasn't throwing up, but . . .
Troy: No. He didn't get to that point.
Scot: It wasn't good. So that sugar film, I think I saw it on Amazon Prime. I think it's free.
Troy: Okay.
Scot: If you get a chance to watch it, it might be worth watching. And then, I think it's worth getting somebody in to talk about, you know, the science behind it.
Troy: That sounds like a great topic, yeah.
Scot: And if it's valid or not.
Troy: Yeah.
