47: Therapy Isn’t Just for a Crisis

Scot: Coming in hot to stir the pot. It's 715 acres.

Troy: Exactly.

Scot: We've got it flame thrower up on top of Ensign Peak. Yes. Getting yourself from Roy to, whatever, South Jordan.

Broadcasting from the top of Hansen Peak to the universe.

Troy: This is The Scope Radio.

Scot: This is "Who Cares About Men's Health?" The show is called "Who Cares About Men's Health?" It is a show to talk about our health because, you know, a lot of times, I think guys care about their health, but they feel a little funny sometimes talking about it so we're trying to normalize that and show that it is cool and okay and that you can actually get benefit out of that. My name is Scot Singpiel, and I am the manager of TheScopeRadio.com, and I care about men's health.

Troy: And I'm Dr. Troy Madsen, and I'm an emergency physician at the University of Utah, and I care about men's health.

Kevin: I'm Kevin Curtis, and I'm a licensed clinical social worker and the Director of Crisis Services at the Neuropsychiatric Institute, and I care about men's health.

Ben: And my name is Ben, and I am an average employee at the local university, and I care about men's health.

Scot: All right. We've got a full house today, Troy.

Troy: Full house, and we all care about men's health. That's the good news.

Scot: This is exciting. So we talk about our core four plus one more, which is, there are just four things, if you kind of focus on these four things, it's going to make your life better today, and in the future. That's your nutrition, your activity, your sleep, your mental health, and then the plus one more is, you got to know your genetics. Mental health is one of those things, we talk about men talking about their health and a lot of times, we might talk about big events like a heart attack or something like that, right? But generally, our normal day-to-day health, we don't talk about, and certainly, we would never talk about our mental well-being.

Troy: No. No. That's a taboo topic.

Scot: But it's a critical, critical part of our health, and that's why we brought Ben in today because he had an experience, and we'd like to hear his story about his journey with his mental health. So let's . . .

Ben: Right.

Scot: Let's start with you, Ben, and let's just start at the point where you realized something was up.

Ben: So I . . . this was early in my career before I was married so this was 10, 12 years ago and I was just trying to get over at work, lots of different stressors and I just had realized that there were certain aspects of my life that seemed to be more and more unmanageable. And I remember receiving an email from our human resources representative, just outlaying some, just some benefits that we had as employees, and one of them was something I had not ever heard of called the employee assistance program. And it had a little description of what it was all about, and I thought that I would give it a call, just to talk about this situation that I felt was not working for me in my life.

Scot: Can you expand a little bit on what that . . . what you meant by unmanageable, there were certain aspects of your life that were unmanageable?

Ben: Yeah. Sure. So there were . . . I was, I don't know, late 20s, and there were just some patterns that I was seeing myself do, like the way I was relating with certain people at work, some feelings that I was having about some work situations that I just, I felt like I didn't see . . . I felt like, you know, other people that I saw weren't having these same types of problems.

Scot: Was it anger? Was it burnout?

Ben: Yeah. I think . . .

Scot: I mean, like . . .

Ben: No. It was, I think, it was rooted in just, like, some frustration and anger. And I remember I was taking stuff home with me, so I would . . . I went to my parents' house for, like, Sunday dinner one day, and my dad said, "What is going on? You're not acting like yourself. I can tell something is going on." I felt like, "Whoa. Okay. I don't know what's going on. I know, like, I'm not super happy." But I also didn't have, I also realized that I didn't have a lot of the tools to understand what was happening.

Scot: So, at the moment, I mean, your dad said that, but you didn't realize necessarily . . .

Ben: Yeah. Like, I knew I . . .

Scot: . . . that you were acting differently at all?

Ben: Like, I knew I wasn't, like, super psyched about work, but I also felt, like, you know, lots of Dilbert cartoons had taught me that you shouldn't be very psyched about work anyway.

Troy: Okay. Yeah. And that's what's tough. It sounds like someone actually brought it to your attention. I think for a lot of us, we say, "Well, work is work. If it wasn't work, it would be called fun." But it's not called fun, it's called work, so I'll just get through the day. But it sounds like you were seeing changes, and someone actually pointed it out to you.

Ben: Yeah. And I had, well, I had attributed it to, you know, that my supervisor had suddenly quit and I was then thrust into a more expanded role than I was ready for and I just, I thought like, "Oh, I'm just really stressed by this and everything." So I thought I would just . . . So I received this email saying, "Hey. There's this employee assistance program. Give them a call." That it's super easy. And I went on the website, saw that it was all about . . . I initially, I thought, "Oh, this is therapy," because I'm not diagnosed with anything, and I'm not ready for, like, a long-term, multi-year, three days a week session.

Scot: Like on the "The Sopranos," you were already for that certain situation.

Ben: Like, and I'm not going to unpack a bunch of relationships with my mom with this. So I . . . the information that I had was that it was going to be a short term, outcome-based type of arrangement. I thought, "Well, that's great." So I called, made the appointment, went in, sat in, and I think that, sitting down and talking to someone who's an objective third party, who was really skilled with the tools . . . And I guess this is it, and my dad brings it up, but it's not, like, my family of origin has a lot of mental health expertise, right? It's like, "Well, I don't know. Maybe you should go talk to somebody."

Scot: Yeah. Sure.

Ben: "But not me."

Scot: Kevin, is this pretty common, the way that he was experiencing it, frustration, anger, and then somebody else kind of says, "What's up? You just don't seem like the same person"?

Kevin: Yeah. That definitely happens, not for everyone, so you don't want to wait until somebody, kind of, points out, "Oh, you seem miserable. You probably need some help."

Scot: Is it also pretty common that maybe we don't realize that there is something going on? We don't . . . I mean, I don't know how to word that any. We, like, have these emotions, but we don't even realize what we're doing.

Kevin: Yeah. That is, it's not just common, that is the experience for most people. Most people, they can see when other people are not doing well, but they live in their heads all day, and they are, really, frequently, very poor at knowing when they're not doing well.

Troy: And I guess another good point Ben brought up was that, you know, he didn't feel like he was going there to get a diagnosis or, you know, necessarily being diagnosed with something or start on medication but it sounds like, Ben, you found a lot of value just in being able to talk with someone there, and that's really the value that you took from it.

Ben: Right. So I, right, so I met with the therapist and . . . or . . . I'm not sure what she was called, a therapist. Whatever. I don't know what they're called. I met with somebody.

Scot: Well . . .

Ben: They were great.

Scot: Yeah. I mean, that's a good question. Who generally would you encounter if you did one of those work assistance things?

Kevin: If you go to an EAP, it's typically staffed by licensed mental health therapists.

Ben: Yeah. This individual was an LCSW.

Kevin: Go ahead.

Ben: I met with her, and she said, "What's happening?" And I said, "Well, I have, you know, XYZ happening, and I'm not happy about it, and I don't know what the problem is." And she had some very, you know, they might seem simple, but some techniques and things that she gave me, some homework and some things that I took with me. And I think, over the course of meeting with her three or four times, this was probably two, three months, some real marked changes in how I was interacting with people, how I was engaging with life and then I had, sort of, like, this, the beginnings of a mental health toolbox that still serves me to this day.

Scot: Was there some skepticism about going in? I mean, did you have this little interior monologue like, "I'm a guy. I don't need this. This is ridiculous. What are they going to tell me that I don't already know? I just need to get more training in my job"?

Ben: No. I . . . No. I felt like . . .

Scot: That's awesome. Good for you.

Ben: I felt like there was, obviously, something that I was missing in my life, in the time, because the experience was so positive the first time I went, and this might be the takeaway for a listener, right? Is, you should just go. Yeah. Sure. And it will, it, likely, it will be something useful, and that sort of sets the table for my engagement for the rest of my life, I guess.

Troy: And, Kevin, what's your typical experience with this when you see people come in? Is it kind of a one-and-done thing, a lot of people just come in one time, and they're like, "Yeah, I'm good"? Are they coming back for multiple visits? Is it usually three or four, or is it, you know, pretty much over their career . . .

Kevin: Yeah. That . . .

Troy: . . . they continue to come in?

Kevin: That's a great question. I think it varies depending on the need. It's interesting. When you talk about, kind of, medical health, I think people understand, there's a broad spectrum of different ways of getting that help. There's the emergency room when you're dying. There's the primary care office when you have a cold. There are all these different ways to engage with medical health. But they often think of mental health as, "I engage in it when I'm in crisis or when I'm suicidal." Or that sort of thing. And that's not the reality for the vast majority of people that could benefit from mental health services. It's, kind of, the difference between only going to see a financial planner when you're in bankruptcy versus going to see a financial planner to actually plan for your future, to problem solve some issues you may be having, and really set yourself up for success.

Scot: I think that's a great analogy because, you know, that person has some skills and ability, and they've dedicated their career, and they have some talent in helping you plan your finances. Just like when you're going to somebody, like a licensed clinical social worker, has those skills, tools, and abilities to help you with that as well.

Ben: Yeah. I . . . So along those lines, about five years ago, there was a family situation that was beginning to play out. I thought, I was trying to project, kind of, where a situation was headed, and this was over the holidays, and I felt like I was having a heart attack when I was thinking about it.

Scot: Wow. Really?

Ben: And I knew I wasn't having a heart attack, but I said, "I think I'm having a panic attack and I think I'm having a couple, like, a sequence of panic attacks all surrounding, you know, thinking about this situation." And had I not initially been, had, like, gone to the employee assistance or seen somebody previously, I wouldn't have known what to do. But because I had had that experience, I have this panic attack, and I think, "Okay. I need to check in with EAP, like, as soon as the holidays are over," which I did. And I went and saw somebody really quickly. I met with this guy, an LCSW, not just a guy. But he gave me some really . . . I saw a guy instead and he was in the back of a van.

Scot: Wow. Actually, it's not . . .

Ben: He was very wise.

Scot: . . . a terrible . . . it's not a terrible idea.

Ben: No, it was . . .

Kevin: As a professional, I don't recommend meeting with somebody in the back . . .

Ben: No, it was a . . .

Kevin: . . . of van

Scot: It is terrible idea, Ben.

Ben: No. He was . . .

Kevin: Not great for these purposes.

Ben: He was great. He was an LCSW. It was at the same office where I had been previously. I knew what it was like. It was not a big deal. Even though I . . . Somebody else may feel like they were in a crisis, I just knew I was having . . . I'm like, "I think I'm having a panic attack and I go and talk to him." And I said, "I think I'm having panic attacks, and I think it's centering around this specific family situation that might play out this certain way." And it was just another great experience of talking to an objective third party who can help you unpack, you know, a professional who can help you unpack the situation, and then he gave me some real, useful, practical techniques that I could exercise to deal with this.

Scot: Earlier, we talked about this notion, if it's hidden. Like, how would a person know about it? And it sounded like Ben, because of his previous experience, then started realizing that these types of things are going on. Is that the case, or is it always hidden? I mean, how do you self-check your mental health?

Kevin: That is the million-dollar question. I have had personal experiences where I've used a therapist, or I've used an EAP, and, for me, I have had that barrier of, but you are a therapist. You know the tools. You know that. So I don't think that there's an easy answer to that question of, how do you know? Because we all have our own experiences that we bring, and a lot of those experiences are cultural experiences that reinforce, you know, "if you're not bleeding, you're okay." And that's just not the case.

Troy: I mean, kind of along those lines, as I'm hearing you talk about, you know, the financial planner analogy, and Ben, about your experience, and then just recognizing, "Hey, I'm just going to get back and then see EAP." It almost seems, to me, that it's not a bad idea, even if you're not really that stressed at work to see EAP at some point and have that established, almost like a primary care physician so you have that relationship, or at least you've made some contacts. Certainly, we all experience stress to some degree or another, and then you feel much more comfortable going in there as things come up. Have you ever seen that?

Kevin: Yeah. And that's a recommendation that I make to people all the time. It's not, what are the problems that you're experiencing that you want to solve? It's, how could your life be better, and what would you be willing to do to make your life better?

Scot: Yeah. That's fantastic because I go see a massage therapist every quarter just to kind of get some kinks worked out, whether I need to or not, I just hard schedule that appointment. So maybe, perhaps, that is a good idea, just to have that appointment every quarter or so even if you don't have anything going on and that way you've got the relationship. And I'd imagine through those conversations, you'll find something. If you really have analyzed your life, then . . .

Kevin: Certainly. I loved Ben's mention of the Dilbert cartoons and, kind of, this shared understanding that work is supposed to be awful, and you should feel like it's a slog. True, work will never be play, right? But you don't have to be miserable in your family life. You don't have to be miserable in your work life. That is not actually an experience that's required for everybody to go through. So if you're experiencing any sort of negative emotion attached to any of those domains of your life, those are all things that you can proactively talk about with somebody, and that can usually help.

Scot: We talked about how Ben used the employee assistance program, which some people have, some people don't have that, so how do you access this resource? I mean, there are some people that have insurance, and then there are some people that don't. So what's your thought on that, Kevin?

Kevin: Yeah. So the first thing that I would say is that most people that are employed will have an employee assistance program. The level to which their organization is good about educating people on that. So before you do anything, you may want to check with your employer, if you are in an employed situation. If you do not have insurance or you do not have access to an EAP, there are lots of different ways of gaining access to some of these resources. So a lot of people, when they think about mental health work, they think about going to pay $200 to sit on somebody's couch. And that is a thing that exists out there, but that is not the only thing.

There are many local behavioral health clinics that provide therapy type services that operate on a sliding scale, where you have a conversation with them about what your finances are, and they cater the cost. There are places that provide low-cost counseling services. A good example of that is some of the universities. The one that I'm thinking of, the University of Phoenix, their counseling program, they offer low-cost therapy sessions with their trainee therapists, which can also be really helpful, and that happens under the supervision of licensed clinicians. So there are lots of options out there. Don't let cost be a barrier to getting in and seeing somebody.

Scot: So I'm looking probably for a licensed clinical social worker, is kind of my first step. I don't need to look up a psychiatrist or a psychologist?

Kevin: That's correct. Licensed clinical social workers are not the only people that do this work. There are some psychologists that work on a sliding scale. Any sort of mental health counselor would be a good fit. But that language of, do you use a sliding scale? Could be useful for people that are wanting to get that access, but they're concerned about the finances.

Scot: All right. Ben, thank you very much for sharing your story and your experience. We appreciate that.

Troy: Yeah. Thanks, Ben.

Ben: Well, I care about men's health, so of course , I would be here.

Troy: I'm glad you clarified that.

Scot: I think through your story, hopefully, we'll see some people inspired to maybe . . . It sounds like emotions might be one of the things you might like. If you're feeling these emotions that you're like, "Why am I feeling this?" That might be a good indication of something that hides itself.

Troy: Exactly. And then it's . . .

Scot: You know, reach out . . .

Troy: . . . manifesting itself in relationships or just, you know, kind of like Ben found, maybe you're just finding issues at work, or you're just a little quicker to react to things and . . . all potentially reasons to go talk to someone.

Scot: I hope this story empowers people.

Ben: I would also just add that if you see something in a loved one or a friend, and you think that there is something there, you should address that with the person, maybe sooner than later. And, like, Kevin and I are good friends. I called Kevin just about, to get some advice on prompting somebody to reach out, and I think like that . . . You know, I initially reached out to EAP because somebody asked me, "What's going on?" So I think if you have somebody that you feel like you might be concerned about or something that might be there, you should act on that.

Troy: That's a great point and something that we probably don't do enough as guys, but talking to them and finding the opportunity and, you know, helping them to get help in the right direction.

Scot: And that question, "What's going on?"

Troy: Yeah. "What's going on?"

Scot: Thanks for listening. And thanks for caring about men's health. All right. So we get some email on occasion from people wondering some questions. So, Troy, you just recently got one. Would you share that with us?

Troy: I do get occasion, I should say, I get occasional emails from people, and maybe I should share those. And I got one recently . . .

Scot: Yeah, let's.

Troy: . . . from a guy who . . .

Scot: No, Troy, just keep those to yourself.

Mitch: Yeah. Like, fan mail to yourself.

Scot: Don't tell us. Yeah. Don't tell us . . .

Troy: It wasn't fan mail.

Scot: . . . what's going on on this show.

Troy: It's medical questions. I had gotten one from a guy recently who's like, "I found a baby bat in the woods, and I picked it up, and I was playing with it, and then I let it go. Should I get a rabies shot? My family says yes." This was . . .

Mitch: Wow.

Troy: . . . the email. And I . . .

Scot: Wow.

Troy: . . . you know. So I occasionally get these emails, and my response is, I said, "I can't offer a specific health advice, but I will refer you to the CDC website, which says, if you've had any possible contact with an animal, a bat's saliva, you should get the rabies series." But . . .

Scot: Oh, really? So it doesn't have to bite you, just the saliva is enough?

Troy: No. They go as far to say, if you wake up in your bedroom and there is a bat in the room, you need to get the rabies series. Just because of the possible . . .

Scot: Yeah. I've, I mean I have heard that, right? But I guess I thought that's because you would never know if it bit you in the night.

Troy: Yeah. No. Even playing with it. No. There was a horrible case two years ago in Wyoming that we treated here. I mean, I can say this because it was on the news and all that. But, yeah, a family that, yeah, this same kind of thing, they were just playing with bats in their house, never bitten, that they knew of, and one of the family members died of rabies. So any contact with saliva, like, bat's or anything, you just . . . You know, it's easy enough. The series is not a big deal. People worry so much about it because they hear about getting shots in their stomach and stuff, but that's not the case at all. So, yeah. And so, like, just do it.

Scot: Wow. So then . . . Like, so how then do I get rabies from the saliva? Is it the, back to the good old, you put your hand in your mouth, or you touch your eyes.

Troy: Probably. Yeah.

Scot: You touch your face. I mean, is that how it . . . Could it go in through, like, an open sore or something on your hand?

Troy: Probably. You know, I think the bigger thing probably is that, it gets on your hand, and then you touch your eyes, or you wipe your eyes, or you touch your mouth, then it gets in through, you know, through that route. But, yeah. And so it's just, you know, it's one of those things. It's just . . . it is not a big deal to give the vaccine, and there's no treatment for it, so you just say, yeah, any risks, just get treated. That's all.

Scot: So playing with bats, huh?

Troy: I know.

Scot: What does that look like exactly? I mean, what are you doing there? It's not like a dog that you want to pet their head. It is not, like . . .

Troy: Probably just, like, holding it and stuff. And, I mean, I'm guessing it's, like, I don't know, I just imagine him coming upon this little bat in the woods and like, "Oh, what is this? Oh, cool." And, like, picks it up and it's kind of, like, fluttering around in his hands and he's checking it out, you know? I can't blame the guy. I'd probably do the same thing, and I'm not recommending that. It's unwise, but I, you know, not knowing better, I might do the same thing.

Scot: Do they fetch? You know, like, if you threw something, would they fly and bring it back? Because, I mean, you know, I've played fetch with dogs.

Troy: You never know.

Scot: You get a lot of saliva on the ball that way. Bats, that's a bad idea to be handling bats. Are there other animals that . . .

Troy: It's unwise to handle bats. Yes.

Scot: Yeah. Are there other animals that you could get rabies from that just, from the saliva that you might want to stay away from?

Troy: Raccoons. Yeah. Raccoons are notorious carriers of rabies.

Scot: There was a guy on Instagram I followed, had a pet raccoon.

Troy: Yeah. People have pet raccoons, and I don't know if they're getting the raccoons tested. Like, if they're domesticated. Like, they've, you know, been bred and their . . . what the situation is there. But, yeah, it's not an animal that you want to keep as a pet just because of that rabies risk. And they're, again, they're asymptomatic carriers. It's not like they're foaming at the mouth. It's not like they're "Old Yeller," where they're clearly having rabies. You just . . . You know, it is, like, healthy little animals and you . . . Yeah. You don't want to keep them as a pet. That's . . .

Scot: Spoiler alert on "Old Yeller." I mean, I didn't know that he had . . .

Troy: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Dude, have you not seen "Old Yeller"?

Scot: No, I guess not.

Troy: Geez. That is the saddest movie. I mean, if you want to make me cry, show me "Old Yeller" or "Marley and Me." Like, just no. I'm never going to watch those shows.

Scot: And he had rabies? Old Yeller had rabies?

Troy: Yeah. It did . . .

Mitch: "Get outta here. Get outta here. Get . . ."

Scot: Oh. All right. So back to rabies. So raccoons, bats, what else? It's mainly . . .

Troy: Foxes.

Scot: . . . mainly meat. It's mainly meat-eating animals, isn't it?

Troy: Yes. Meat-eating animals. Those are your biggest risk. You know, things like rabbits, squirrels . . .

Scot: Ooh, rabbits.

Troy: . . . are not carriers of rabies. No. Those are not carriers because they're not meat-eating animals. It's primarily wild, meat-eating animals. Although, bats don't eat meat, but they are carriers of rabies.

Scot: Well, they eat bugs, don't they? And isn't that meat?

Mitch: Exactly.

Scot: I mean, it's not a lot of meat.

Troy: It's a bug.

Scot: It's just a little tiny bit of meat. But it's not . . .

Troy: Maybe it is. I don't know. Maybe that's more of a philosophical question. I don't know. Can I still be a vegetarian and eat bugs? I don't have a good answer to that. I don't know.

Scot: All right. Well, interesting, interesting journey into rabies and why you shouldn't be playing with wild animals that you discover . . .

Troy: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Scot: . . . out in the forest.

Troy: Yeah. Avoid the wild animals.

Scot: And if you have a question, you can email us at any time, of course, at hello@thescoperadio.com. All right. Odds and Ends on "Who Cares About Men's Health?" One item that we're going to discuss, and that is the "Who Cares About Mitch's Health 5k." We are getting closer and closer. It's going to be on June 20th. If you have not done so, please go to facebook.com/whocaresmenshealth and sign up for the event. It's a virtual 5k to celebrate the fact that Mitch, I should say, has gone from couch to 5k in the course of nine weeks. So when you go there, sign up, let us know that you want to participate. If you want to run, walk, it doesn't matter. But download your bib and pick your number and get ready for the 5k on June 20th. Speaking of bibs, we have this great picture that Troy sent us. Tell us what this picture is, Troy. What am I looking at here?

Troy: So this picture is me and my running buddy Charlotte with our race bibs, and we are ready to go. My lucky number, number 33, which I've never had in a race and Charlotte's number is one half since she's kind of short. So she's my running buddy. She's excited to participate. You can see the enthusiasm in her face. She's just like, "Let me go. Let me run this for Mitch." She's ready to do it. So that is the picture.

Scot: She wants to do it for Mitch. I love that. I love that.

Troy: She wants to do it for Mitch. She's like, "I have not met Mitch, but I already like him, and I'm going to run this for Mitch."

Scot: This picture is one of the most awesome things that I have ever seen in my life, by the way. So thank you for doing the bibs. Mitch's number is 101 because, and it took me a while to realize why this was, even after he had told me. Why 101?

Troy: You didn't want to be number one, right, Mitch?

Mitch: No.

Scot: No. See, that's what I took, and then I re-listened to the episode, and I'm like, no, I completely misunderstood what he was saying.

Mitch: No, because when you are first learning something, the course that you take is course 101. Like, you are . . .

Troy: Oh, that's right.

Mitch: . . . just learning. So I am just learning to run. I am number 101.

Troy: Oh. I see.

Scot: And I thought it was because he wanted to say he's number one, but didn't want to be so, you know, bold as to say number one, so I'm going to be number 101.

Troy: That's what I thought too. Okay.

Scot: So I'm going to be number 101.

Troy: Clearly, we . . .

Scot: That was my fault.

Troy: . . . we missed, yeah, we missed the point of that. But, no, I like it. Scot, what number are you going to be? Have you picked your number out?

Scot: Yeah. That's a good question. You know, I don't know. I haven't picked my number out. I mean, maybe I should just be 69 because, you know, that guy is going to show up, so maybe I just preempt it.

Troy: You're just going to be him. 69, dude. It's you. It's you.

Scot: No. It's not me. That's the funny part of this. So I need to come up with a number. I don't know.

Troy: You need to be 69, and you need to have, like, a mullet and a headband and in, like, '80s sunglasses. That's what you need to be. You just need to be that guy.

Scot: So we'd love it if you'd participate. Get your bib, pick your number and then June 20th, join us whenever works for you because it's the 5k, your way, the "Who Cares About Mitch's Health 5k." More information at facebook.com/whocaresmenshealth.

Just going to leave this here, and it might have something to do with health, or it might just be a random thought. Troy, why don't you go ahead and start this off.

Troy: Scot, I'm just going to leave this here. Today was a big day for me, and I know you may not have noticed yet because I haven't actually requested any friends, but I actually joined Facebook today.

Scot: Whoa. What?

Troy: I know. I had to do it to get a copy of our bib for the photo I took with Charlotte. So I actually signed up for a Facebook account. I have not made any friends on Facebook yet. I am worried that when I try to make friends that no one will friend me back, so I'm just going to be sitting there with no friends.

Scot: Yeah. Right.

Troy: But maybe the podcast will be my friend. But I did it. I don't know. I'm not quite sure what to make of it yet, but I did join Facebook. I took the plunge.

Scot: Well, I have an announcement. I have decided to get off Facebook because . . .

Troy: Now that I'm on. So now I really won't have any friends unless Mitch will friend me.

Scot: I'm just going to leave this here. You know, I never look as cool in the mirror or in real life as I do in my shadow. Have you ever noticed that?

Troy: Your shadow.

Scot: Like when I'm out running or doing anything, my shadow looks awesome. But then I see myself, like, I'll run by a building and see my reflection in the glass, and I don't look as awesome anymore. So I just kind of wish I always looked like my shadow because my shadow looks awesome and that's my . . .

Troy: Your shadow. Your shadow's got great form. It's just, like . . . Yeah. And maybe it's because in the shadow, it's, like, shortened and so it makes your . . . but your pace is still, you know, relative to the shadow height, it is still your normal pace, so maybe, it makes your pace look longer. But yeah, I kind of hear what you're talking about. Usually, the shadow runner looks pretty cool.

Scot: I think my shadow looks taller and leaner, I think maybe it is why that looks so awesome, as opposed to when I used to weight train.

Troy: It depends on when you're running. Yeah.

Scot: Yeah. As opposed to when I used to weight train, and I'd go into . . . come out of the gym. I loved how I looked in my car window, the sidecar window, because that made everything smaller, so it made me look thicker.

Troy: Thicker. It's, like the funhouse mirror. It's like, "Yeah. I like that look. That's a good angle."

Scot: That's right. If I was rich, I would have a room with various mirrors that depicted however I wanted to see myself that particular day.

Troy: Pick your mirror of the day. "I'm feeling kind of . . ."

Scot: Yup. My mirror of the day.

Troy: ". . . tall and lean today." I like it.

Scot: All right. Time to say the things that you say at the end of podcasts because we are at the end of ours. Troy, you love doing this, so why don't you go ahead and start.

Troy: Oh, I know. I practice this in my sleep. So thanks for listening. You can check us out on Facebook, facebook.com/whocaresmenshealth, which now, I can go to that page, and I can actually see stuff, since I have a Facebook account. Go to whocaresmenshealth.com. You can contact us at hello@thescoperadio.com. We'd love to hear from you and hear what you have to say.

Scot: Absolutely. And most importantly, subscribe to this podcast if it was something you enjoyed and tell a friend about it if you think it's something that somebody that you know would enjoy wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you very much for listening, and thank you for caring about men's health.